Will the Day of the Lord come as a thief, or will there be signs first?

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamd,

Let`s see who the Lord says is coming with Him.

When Jesus was on earth the disciples asked Him to tell them about what would happen to Israel & the nations at the end of this age. Jesus told them quite clearly about the tribulation & persecution Israel would endure but that He would come again with His mighty angels to deliver Israel & judge the nations of the world.  

 

 `they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

These Holy angels are the army who come with Jesus when he brings vengeance upon the ungodly.

So all those PEOPLE in heaven that John wrote about in Rev. 19 will stay in heaven while Jesus and the angels come to earth? 

Zechariah 14:5  Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.

Jude 1:14  Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

No, the first time they move out of their place

This is contradictory. "No" (they don't flee away twice.) Then "the first time" meaning (they do), at least one more time.

Rev 6:14- And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 16:20- And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It move the rotation axis of the earth by a few inches

"Libbing-" it does not say that at all in scripture.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

John never mentioned what was revealed AFTER the sky is rolled up. Perhaps HEAVEN is seen. It is only a guess.

So stick with something biblical, the heaven "departed". The only scriptural replacement is the "new heaven." No need to guess.

 

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

WHEN will this earth and heaven disappear and a NEW heaven and earth appear? That would be AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ, and just before the great, white throne judgment.

I am curious as to whether you also think the following linear as well.

 

Rev 6:12- And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

 

Is 13:10- For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Is 24:23- Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

 

Joel 2:10- The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Joel 2:31- The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

 

Mat 24:29- Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

Mark 13:24-27- But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

Luke 21:25- And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luke 21:27- And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

Rev 1:7- Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen

Rev 8:12- And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Uriah
spelling

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

23 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I think I disagree on one point. When Jesus said "no man knows the day nor the hour, in context that was His Armageddon coming. I will NOT come on the 1260th day from the abomination. He will remain in heaven for the marriage and supper - so for an unknown time.

I agree there are two more comings, first FOR His bride, then about seven years later WITH His bride.

Where do you see the start of the Day of the Lord in relation to the rapture?

The phrase " no man knows the day or hour " can ONLY refer to the rapture. It's not the start of the " Day of the Lord ". It's separate.  It has to be the rapture because the rapture is the only part of the book of Revelation that gives no specific time.  It's the only future prophecy that is completely by surprise without any warning at all. Every other part has signs and warnings that observant people will be able to read. 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

The phrase " no man knows the day or hour " can ONLY refer to the rapture. It's not the start of the " Day of the Lord ". It's separate.  It has to be the rapture because the rapture is the only part of the book of Revelation that gives no specific time.  It's the only future prophecy that is completely by surprise without any warning at all. Every other part has signs and warnings that observant people will be able to read. 

Let's look:

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [f]heaven, but My Father only. 

This is another view of the same coming: to Armageddon:
Rev. 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

I agree, this is NOT the start of the Day of the Lord. (That will start before the tribulation of those days.)

It cannot be the rapture, for Jesus never mentioned that coming, except remotely in John 14. It cannot be the rapture for it is 7 years too late to be the rapture. It cannot be the rapture for at the rapture Jesus does not touch down.

In context then, this is Jesus' coming to Armageddon. It is after the tribulation of those days. The tribulation comes with God's wrath. The church will not be subject to God's wrath. 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

This is contradictory. "No" (they don't flee away twice.) Then "the first time" meaning (they do), at least one more time.

Rev 6:14- And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 16:20- And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

If the mountains only moved, they can be found: just not where they were before.

The reason the mountains were not found, is because they disappeared. CSB

Every island fled, and the mountains disappeared. CEB

Every island fled, and the mountains disappeared. CJB

Every island fled, and no mountains were to be found. CEV

Every island ran away, and the mountains disappeared. DARBY

And every island fled, and mountains were not found; DLNT

And every island fled, and the mountains were not found. DRA

Every island disappeared and there were no more mountains. ERV

These two events CANNOT be the same thing; of this isn't God's Word.

WHEN did the mountains only move?  Before the tribulation of those days.
WHEN did the mountains disappear?  After the tribulation of those days.

These cannot be talking about the same event.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

"Libbing-" it does not say that at all in scripture.

 

What is written is that the mountains were moved out of their place. 

"The initial data suggests Friday's earthquake moved Japan's main island about 8 feet, according to Kenneth Hudnut of the U.S. Geological Survey. The earthquake also shifted Earth's figure axis by about 6 1/2 inches (17 centimeters), Gross added." 
https://www.space.com/11115-japan-earthquake-shortened-earth-days.html#:~:text=The earthquake also shifted Earth's,1%2C000 mph (1%2C604 kph).

If it moved an island, it also moved mountains. 

Why not just believe what is written? The mountains moved.

Edited February 2, 2023 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

So stick with something biblical, the heaven "departed". The only scriptural replacement is the "new heaven." No need to guess.

How many new heavens will there be? 

Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The ONE new heaven and new earth will come only AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ.

6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Revelation 8:12  And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

The stars did not roll up with the scroll. They are still there later. I don't think anyone knows what this means: the sky rolling up like a scroll. 

Keep in mind, this is apocalyptic type of writing. 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

 

 

I am curious as to whether you also think the following linear as well.

 

Rev 6:12- And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

 

Is 13:10- For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Is 24:23- Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

 

Joel 2:10- The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Joel 2:31- The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

 

Mat 24:29- Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

Mark 13:24-27- But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

Luke 21:25- And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Luke 21:27- And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

Rev 1:7- Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen

Rev 8:12- And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

 

The signs in the sun and moon written in Joel 2, 30-31 will be fulfilled at the 6th seal - which is the sign for the start of the Day of the Lord. These seem to be total eclipses of the sun and moon.

The signs in the sun and moon and stars written in Joel 3, Isaiah 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21 all are the signs for Christ's coming to Armageddon. This sign seems to be total darkness.

Keep in mind, there will be TWO MORE comings of the Lord.
There will be TWO TIMES that signs will be seen in the sun, moon and stars.
There will be times and events BEFORE the tribulation, and times and events AFTER the tribulation.

[Keras]

24 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The signs in the sun and moon written in Joel 2, 30-31 will be fulfilled at the 6th seal

The next Prophesied event that the world will experience will be the Sixth Seal. Revelation 6:12-17 Proved by how the first Five Seals were opened at Jesus’ Ascent to heaven. Revelation 6:1-11

All those things have happened, we have experienced wars, famines, plagues and economic disasters aplenty. Any more of those and humankind would have been wiped out.  The Fifth Seal is all the Christian martyrs since Stephen. 
The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, of cosmic and earthly events; graphically prophesied in the Bible over 100 times, will cause the earth to shudder and shake, and move out of her place....Isaiah 13:13, Isaiah 24:19-20, Revelation 6:14

It will be just a one Day event, as the Coronal Mass Ejection explosion of the suns surface, that the Lord will instigate, Isaiah 30:26a, Psalms 50:1-3, will quickly pass; travelling at 3.5 million mph. But the strike onto the earth of a multi billion ton mass, of superheated Hydrogen plasma, will literally cause all the prophesied effects of the virtual depopulation of all the Middle East region, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Isaiah 13:9, Zephaniah 1:14-18, and worldwide devastation.
It won't affect the daily rotation of the earth, ask any scientist to tell you how totally destructive a sudden change to the earths spin would be.

What it will do is speed up the earth’s orbit by pushing the earth as it moves now at 66,000 mph on its orbital track. Just imagine it; a mass approaching a fast moving object, some may initially hit direct, then the main mass; pressing on the trailing side. This will speed up our 365.24 day year to a 360 day year.
Making the time periods as given by Daniel and Revelation fit exactly!

Regarding the darkness on that Day:  Amos 5:18-20, Joel 2:31,

The sun will be obscured by the approaching mass, then when it has passed, there will be smoke and ash clouds for possibly months.  Isaiah 60:2

 

The effects of the earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. plus the moon shining bright red and the earths atmosphere being pushed aside, are what a massive CME can and will cause.

Because this will be a seemingly natural disaster, those who disbelieve in God, will continue in their disbelief and when the Leader of the One World Govt demands worship of him, they will be happy to do so. Revelation 13:8

[Uriah]

59 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

The signs in the sun and moon written in Joel 2, 30-31 will be fulfilled at the 6th seal - which is the sign for the start of the Day of the Lord. These seem to be total eclipses of the sun and moon.

The signs in the sun and moon and stars written in Joel 3, Isaiah 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21 all are the signs for Christ's coming to Armageddon. This sign seems to be total darkness.

Keep in mind, there will be TWO MORE comings of the Lord.
There will be TWO TIMES that signs will be seen in the sun, moon and stars.
There will be times and events BEFORE the tribulation, and times and events AFTER the tribulation.

At the sixth seal people are hiding from the FACE of Him who sits on the throne! This happens when the sky is departed. Rev 6:17-  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand

Zep 1:14- The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

Zep 1:15- That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness

 

Jude 1:6- And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their... own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

Rev 16:14- For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.