Will the Day of the Lord come as a thief, or will there be signs first?

[iamlamad]

58 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

To answer the OP:  YES

Please expand. I am slow. Explain HOW.

[Justin Adams]

It is a "both and" and not an either or.

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I am not sure this answers the question. IF there are signs preceding, the sun turning black and the moon appearing blood red, then all will know (according to Joel) that the start of the Day is imminent.

As you see it, can you say or agree that the Day of the Lord will be back to back with the rapture—no time between for signs?

The rapture will happen on the day when, "the Lord Himself will descend" and we meet Him in the air. That happens at the END of the tribulation. More particularly, at the cataclysms. The tribulation is NOT 7 yrs., but half of that. Click to enlarge.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Uriah
add last sentence

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

The rapture will happen on the day when, "the Lord Himself will descend" and we meet Him in the air. That happens at the END of the tribulation. More particularly, at the cataclysms. The tribulation is NOT 7 yrs., but half of that. Click to enlarge.

 

 

I agree the tribulation is 42 months and not 7 years, I agree that the Lord returns immediately after the tribulation

I disagree with your illustration showing the two witnesses are raised, "then 5 months continue".

Scripture teaches in the "Same Hour" they are raised the 2nd woe comes in the earthquake, and the 3rd woe comes quickly in the 7th Trump in "Final Judgement" (The End)

Revelation 11:12-18KJV

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Edited January 31, 2023 by truth7t7

[Uriah]

49 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

illustration showing the two witnesses are raised, "then 5 months continue"

That is because you are reading things in a linear fashion. The book of Revelation shows many separate visions which should be treated as a digression, or in simpler terms, parenthetic.

So, after the the discourse on the witnesses, the woes continue.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

The rapture will happen on the day when, "the Lord Himself will descend" and we meet Him in the air. That happens at the END of the tribulation. More particularly, at the cataclysms. The tribulation is NOT 7 yrs., but half of that. Click to enlarge.

 

 

Quote

That happens at the END of the tribulation.

How does this statement correlate with 1 Thes. 4 and 5, where Paul shows us the rapture coming before God's wrath. Do you disagree that the rapture will come just before God's wrath?

Next, John in Revelation is very clear that the Wrath of God will begin with the 6th seal. That is in Revelation 6. How can a seal in chapter 6 equate with the end of the tribulation at the 7th bowl? How do you solve this?

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Uriah said:

The rapture will happen on the day when, "the Lord Himself will descend" and we meet Him in the air. That happens at the END of the tribulation. More particularly, at the cataclysms. The tribulation is NOT 7 yrs., but half of that. Click to enlarge.

 

 

I would like to see the scriptures used to come up with this drawing.

[truth7t7]

28 minutes ago, Uriah said:

That is because you are reading things in a linear fashion. The book of Revelation shows many separate visions which should be treated as a digression, or in simpler terms, parenthetic.

So, after the the discourse on the witnesses, the woes continue.

I Disagree

Scripture teaches the 3rd woe is the 7th Trump (The End) when the final judgement of all takes place

2nd woe The same hour, and 3rd woe comes quickly doesn't equate into 5 months

Jesus Is The Lord

[truth7t7]

7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

How does this statement correlate with 1 Thes. 4 and 5, where Paul shows us the rapture coming before God's wrath. Do you disagree that the rapture will come just before God's wrath?

Next, John in Revelation is very clear that the Wrath of God will begin with the 6th seal. That is in Revelation 6. How can a seal in chapter 6 equate with the end of the tribulation at the 7th bowl? How do you solve this?

1 Thessalonians chapters 4-5 doesn't show a pre wrath rapture as you claim, a teaching found no place in scripture

The resurrection of all takes place at the second coming on the last day (The End)

Edited January 31, 2023 by truth7t7

[Your closest friendnt]

10 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

How does this statement correlate with 1 Thes. 4 and 5, where Paul shows us the rapture coming before God's wrath. Do you disagree that the rapture will come just before God's wrath?

Next, John in Revelation is very clear that the Wrath of God will begin with the 6th seal. That is in Revelation 6. How can a seal in chapter 6 equate with the end of the tribulation at the 7th bowl? How do you solve this?

1 Thes. 4 and 5 is not reliable...it is Paul words..

Paul did not elaborate further to fill in the blanks and there must be a reason why....He was not chosen to speak about those things....no one was...not even John who was Chosen to receive the Revelations of Jesus Christ...

John never made any comments ....only he wrote what he received from Jesus Christ....

Paul's comments were not followed up...till the time when he was getting close to die and he made another statement which reflects what the Lord showed him..

Paul statement shows what Jesus shaw him about himself that at death he will be recieved by himself in the Heavenly...

This is the same statement Peter made when he said that the Lord shawed him that the time to recieved him in Heaven unto himself has come.