How does a fellowship of Christians submit to the Spirit?

[Waggles]

Jude 1:20  But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 
21  keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 

[Mr. M]

24 minutes ago, Waggles said:

3: Understanding comes from patience and faithfulness. We grow in spiritual experience and learn to to prove things, how to test, how to discern - but more importantly what to pray for. 

 

Excellent. I will add one vital element, that being the Spirit of Wisdom. 

Description

James 3:

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works 

are done in the meekness of wisdom. 

14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 

15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 

16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield,

full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 

18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

Interestingly, The Holy Spirit teaches application, consistent with Christ's teaching,

before describing the fruit of True Wisdom, and the Wicked Manifestations of Worldly Wisdom.

James 1:

5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally

and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 

6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a

wave of the sea  driven and tossed by the wind. 

7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 

8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

[Selah7]

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

- James 4:7-8 (KJV)

How easy it is to submit to our Father in heaven—so full of patience and mercy and compassion.

[Marathoner]

There is something worth writing more about --- our sister @Marilyn C mentioned this previously --- and that is how we should patiently recognize the work of the Spirit in others. This is important for the sake of discipleship. In His mercy, the Lord provided us all with the scriptural example of His apostle Peter, so we are assured that every one of us is capable of being mistaken about a given matter. On more than one occasion, Peter was mistaken about something. The Lord was faithful to correct our elder brother in His time. 

Time and the passage of time, then, are what we should grasp where both the works and gifts of the Holy Spirit are concerned. Make no mistake, the administration of His gifts are according to the pleasure and purpose of the Lord alone. God is the giver of every good gift, and we receive His gift as the Spirit imparts to us. It's for this reason that I'm quick to emphasize how there's no formula nor training regimen where the gifts of the Almighty are concerned, for that work which our Lord Jesus Christ starts in each of us proceeds according to His will and time. He is faithful to complete that work.

It's good to offer my own experience as a means of expressing the importance of patience on our part. I have written that there was a time when I "walked in ignorance of His purpose and will," which is to say that the fulness of time had yet to arrive. As it was (and is) for myself, so it is for us all; there is a work which the Lord determined to accomplish before He declared that nothing would be the same again. In my case, the Lord determined to display His power by doing the impossible, raising me up from certain death in the sight of witnesses. This was that work which He preserved me for and the same is true of us all, my friends. The same Lord ministers to us all, but the works which God ordained for us to walk in differ in ways which are pleasing to Him, seeing as how we are each a member (part) of His Body. 

So, when the Lord raised me up, nothing would be the same again. From that day forward I walked in the knowledge of His purpose and will. Our curiosity can get the better of us at times, leading us to inquire of the Lord, "Why do You choose to reveal a matter to me in such a way, Lord? Why? I'm just a stupid man!" That's what I struggled with: when the Lord calls my name, sending me to a certain place, He reveals everything that will come to pass before the journey begins. When the Lord sends a dream or vision, He instructs me regarding the meaning of what I witness. There was only one dream wherein the Lord did not speak, explaining the meaning to me:

The dream He sent regarded the imminent passing of my adopted mother. I knew what the dream spoke of, and I despaired. She had just been given a clean bill of health! The cancer in her body was gone and her liver was doing well. We looked forward to years of working side by side, raising an oasis of green in a parched and barren land. In the dream, I witnessed it all taken away. I understood, but I cried out; I knew that the Spirit was building me up for life walking in the knowledge of His purpose and will. Ah, but it was so hard!

In this way the work of Christ in us is very personal indeed, for the Spirit shapes us into the men and women he intends for us to be. It is for that reason, lacking knowledge from the Lord, that we should be patient and compassionate toward those whom the Lord sends our way. We should be an example... not criticizers by any means... remembering that work He accomplishes in us.  

[Keturah 123]

And the saints all said...........

Amen !

[Waggles]

23 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Is there a clear apostolic doctrine as to how this accomplished?

Any direct experiences?

Learning obedience -

by doing the word of God and applying it to one's walk with the Lord,

and in paying attention to when the Spirit encourages or rebukes one.

Sometimes I will have a wrong thought  and sometimes I choose to do this or that, so then sometimes the Holy Spirit grieves me by giving me a physical pain. This thorn in my side corrects me, and 99% of the time I take heed and repent of my thoughts or do not do what it was I was going to do.

The other 1% never works out good.

[rdclmn72]

I remember learning that the Word and Spirit are one.

Also, if you wage war according to the word, God will provide scriptural results as you are led by the Spirit.

[Vine Abider]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:36 PM, Marathoner said:

I prefer a meeting of brethren at a food bank over a choreographed program of sitting down... standing up... sitting down... heads bowed, eyes closed!... and so on. There are more constructive things to do for the kingdom, yes?

And that's where I went when I saw the question posed by the OP . . . that is, I think when there's a set system in place it tends to guide thinking in a certain way. We humans like our organization and processes and systems and traditions, etc.  But these are not the Lord's thinking and ways.

So it would seem there are at least two ways we might seek the Lord's guidance as an ekklesia -  One would be in a specific matter; another would be being lead by Him in a more general way (like allowing fellowship to go in a particular direction in a gathering).

Here's what I would say about each:

1. For a particular matter - pray corporately and wait to see what the Lord might speak through the body,  This may take some time - after all, it's His speaking & timetable we're interested in. (BTW: I've heard it said that these three things will be in-line - His Anointing and inner life & peace; He will always speak according to His word; then the circumstances will also fall into place)

2. For being lead in more general situations like in gatherings - don't put a tight agenda together that keeps people on a certain "track."  The more "order" we put on things, the less freedom the Spirit has to operate.

Here's an example of a certain point I remember, and the lesson for me was so clear.  I was asked to share on something with another brother for the Sunday message. While I was good with studying my section of the word, the other brother and I couldn't connect to coordinate after several attempts to do so.  And when Sunday rolled around, I didn't even know which of us was going first or who was covering what section!  I remember thinking something like, "Well we've got to just leave this up to the Lord to get this message across effectively, because we surely don't quite know what we're doing!"

And to tell you the truth, I now don't really even remember which of us went first (I think it was the other brother) . . . But what I do remember was how amazed I was that the message came across wonderfully, and everyone was touched and impacted and many testified of such later on in the gathering.  In fact, the whole thing turned into a most enjoyable experience and there was a flow of life in the Spirit!  I remember afterward how appreciative I was that we weren't able to get together and create a set agenda, because it allowed the Spirit room to just come in and take over!  The message from the Lord to me was clear - don't get everything so dialed in . . . allow Me to control it.

So since that time I've seen real value in not having a tight agenda in body life matters, in order to let Him have a way to operate! 

[Mr. M]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

nd that's where I went when I saw the question posed by the OP . . . that is, I think when there's a set system in place it tends to guide thinking in a certain way. We humans like our organization and processes and systems and traditions, etc.  But these are not the Lord's thinking and ways.

1 Corinthians 14:

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together,

each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation,

has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 

33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, 

as in all the churches of the saints.

When I studied the Levitical Law, for the express purpose of seeking insight into the Lord's thinking and ways, I was most impressed by the precise manner of instruction for every sacrifice, every ritual. Humans demand organization and systemic processes, because they otherwise slide into a sloppy manner of doing things, contrary to divine order.

Malachi 1:

7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible.

8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts.

11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

More "I love Malachi" for @farouk

How are we to make a pure offering? Only by the Spirit.

We have been fully briefed on this.

1 Corinthians 12:

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

[Mr. M]

8 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

We have been fully briefed on this.

The ghost in the machine is that the doctrine directs leadership to insist on the involvement of every member in the group. This obviously cannot be accomplished in one hour on a Sunday in a large congregation. Small group meetings must be committed to by the membership, in which the Holy Spirit can use whomsoever He pleases. Try not to be too disappointed when it's one of "the least of these". This is our greatest failure in allowing man's ways to override the Lord. The Spirit would never direct a congregation into such a "top down" manner that most churches, and denominations are governed. The contribution of all for the Body to be healthy is the clear directive. The "charisma" (free gift) of the Holy Spirit is not what the world calls "charisma" in the electric personality of some man or woman.