marriage - how culturally pre-programmed are "men" and "women"?

[Waggles]

Before I came to the Lord [Jesus] I was a certain type of man. 

Very worldly, self-centred, selfish, indulging my addictions, allowing my children to suffer poverty, prone to anger and violence.

 And these were my good traits.

Then I was converted by the indwelling Holy Spirit and became a Pentecostal disciple.

Over time I have become a very very different man by the transforming power of God.

For God by his Spirit did not just heal me instantly from my addictions and bleeding kidneys - but went on to heal my heart, heal my soul, heal my mind and to heal my life.

Even my adult unbelieving of the gospel daughter acknowledges my testimony to being dramatically changed since I believed.

A woman can be a wonderful companion in life not just a wife.

I have remained a widower for some 27 years now and sure I am lonely in that respect - but I have a cat who sleeps on the bed with me. A pretty good substitute.

Ephesians 5:8  for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 
9  (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 
10  and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

 

[com7fy8]

On 2/2/2023 at 2:19 PM, Neighbor said:

Yes I can see that.

What is the purpose or point that you  desire to bring up or serve?

I have my ideas, but I meant for this to be open for what different ones of us have to offer.

I have been told that men in general need "respect" so they can get along with their wives. But I think a maturing Christian husband can do well in relating with his wife, even while she might not show him respect. He can be a good example to help her . . . while she helps him. Respect can be what selfish ego craves, as a form of flattery.

So, I see the preacher could mean better than that.

[com7fy8]

On 2/2/2023 at 1:23 PM, Jayne said:

#1 and #3 are not true because they are not biblical. 

I think I know you know what you are talking about. So, I am curious why you think #3 is not biblical >

On 2/2/2023 at 11:35 AM, com7fy8 said:

 

3. In Jesus there are not male and female identities with separate ways and personalities.

 

The way I understand this, I think this is true because Galatians 3:28 says "there is neither male nor female" in Jesus.

And I understand that as we become conformed to Jesus our personalities change to be like Jesus with each other . . . basically humble and gentle and quiet and joyful and all-loving.

So, what scripture are you going by, in order to disagree with #3? I suppose you are right, according to how you understood it.

Edited February 4, 2023 by com7fy8

[Neighbor]

Pastors make for poor marriage counselors. Too often a bad marriage makes for a snare for a pastor too. The pastor needs do his counseling from the pulpit in front of or before the entirety of the local body of Christ and let the Holy Spirit convict those in need to seek a specialist. There are specialists, Christian specialists, that are better at marriage counseling  for it is their well trained in and only duty.

The wiser pastor will diligently seek out specialists to handle direct personal marriage counseling, keeping arms distance between himself and his individual congregation members  particular marital issues.

[Deborah_]

There ARE biological differences between men and women. Both physical and psychological. For example, men (in general) are taller and stronger than women (in general). That doesn't mean that all men are taller than all women! (I'm a woman who's nearly 6 feet tall, so I'm taller than most men!) It's the same on a psychological level. Men (in general) tend to be more aggressive, more likely to take risks; women (in general) tend to be more interested in relationships. But there are exceptions!!!

Culture tends to reinforce these differences (in various ways). But it wasn't responsible for inventing them. Boys (in general) prefer to play with trucks and trains; girls (in general) prefer dolls. (Again, I was one of the exceptions!) And that remains true even when parents make heroic efforts to be gender-neutral in their parenting. In adult life, even when occupations are open to both sexes without discrimination, most soldiers and firefighters are still men and most nurses are still women. Round pegs will always gravitate to round holes, and square pegs to square ones.

[Jayne]

16 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

I think I know you know what you are talking about. So, I am curious why you think #3 is not biblical >

The way I understand this, I think this is true because Galatians 3:28 says "there is neither male nor female" in Jesus.

And I understand that as we become conformed to Jesus our personalities change to be like Jesus with each other . . . basically humble and gentle and quiet and joyful and all-loving.

So, what scripture are you going by, in order to disagree with #3? I suppose you are right, according to how you understood it.

#3 says, "In Jesus there are not male and female identities with separate ways and personalities."

That is not what Galatians 3:28 says nor means.  You have to read the context.  It is talking about salvation - not gender specific personalities.

Galatians 3:27-29 says, "So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

[Liese]

21 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Pastors make for poor marriage counselors. Too often a bad marriage makes for a snare for a pastor too. The pastor needs do his counseling from the pulpit in front of or before the entirety of the local body of Christ and let the Holy Spirit convict those in need to seek a specialist. There are specialists, Christian specialists, that are better at marriage counseling  for it is their well trained in and only duty.

The wiser pastor will diligently seek out specialists to handle direct personal marriage counseling, keeping arms distance between himself and his individual congregation members  particular marital issues.

Indeed!

[Liese]

22 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

I have my ideas, but I meant for this to be open for what different ones of us have to offer.

I have been told that men in general need "respect" so they can get along with their wives. But I think a maturing Christian husband can do well in relating with his wife, even while she might not show him respect. He can be a good example to help her . . . while she helps him. Respect can be what selfish ego craves, as a form of flattery.

So, I see the preacher could mean better than that.

I believe when Ephesians speaks of wives needing to respect their husbands, and husbands love their wives, God was pre-cognizant of how heavy culture would play a foundational role. Men aren't socially taught to love, they're taught to respect, because they hang around the other guys; and so, to keep up appearances with the guys, a man also needs his wife to respect him in public, and private, so that he can feel good about how he's being treated, which is to say, treated in the manner he can go tell his guy friends the things they value hearing. Respecting hubby is step one, so that the way can be paved for him to then see beyond 'respect'. The greatest of these is 'love', the thing women tend to believe we know better, and what the 'head' most needs to learn (sacrificial love), which is tough for him to see clearly to until he gets the base culturally ingrained need of 'respect' met first, so he can be in a safe space to go deeper. Forgive me if I've gone sexist here (that'd also be cultural of me, eh?). 

Respect is different within the cultures and within the man. So if it were truly a biological/physiological need, its certainly needed by both genders in equal measure, and there is a core way of doing that which is consistent for both. However the cultural part is where things get jacked in terms of what it is to respect - people's mixed notions get mixed in there, such as, 'I'm offended if you call me ma'am' and 'It's disrespectful if you don't call me ma'am'; or 'It's disrespectful to ask a lady's age' when that's really just pride.

My 8 cents.

[com7fy8]

5 hours ago, Jayne said:

#3 says, "In Jesus there are not male and female identities with separate ways and personalities."

That is not what Galatians 3:28 says nor means.  You have to read the context.  It is talking about salvation - not gender specific personalities.

Galatians 3:27-29 says, "So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Yes, a person is clothed with Christ.

That affects the old things of the person's personality and old gender identity things. 

Jesus makes all things new. You discover who you are becoming with each other, right?

[Liese]

1 minute ago, Liese said:

I believe when Ephesians speaks of wives needing to respect their husbands, and husbands love their wives, God was pre-cognizant of how heavy culture would play a foundational role. Men aren't socially taught to love, they're taught to respect, because they hang around the other guys; and so, to keep up appearances with the guys, a man also needs his wife to respect him in public, and private, so that he can feel good about how he's being treated, which is to say, treated in the manner he can go tell his guy friends the things they value hearing. Respecting hubby is step one, so that the way can be paved for him to then see beyond 'respect'. The greatest of these is 'love', the thing women tend to believe we know better, and what the 'head' most needs to learn (sacrificial love), which is tough for him to see clearly to until he gets the base culturally ingrained need of 'respect' met first, so he can be in a safe space to go deeper. Forgive me if I've gone sexist here (that'd also be cultural of me, eh?). 

Respect is different within the cultures and within the man. So if it were truly a biological/physiological need, its certainly needed by both genders in equal measure, and there is a core way of doing that which is consistent for both. However the cultural part is where things get jacked in terms of what it is to respect - people's mixed notions get mixed in there, such as, 'I'm offended if you call me ma'am' and 'It's disrespectful if you don't call me ma'am'; or 'It's disrespectful to ask a lady's age' when that's really just pride.

My 8 cents.

I'm a woman who highly appreciates being respected, by the way, because I don't read 'love' in 'love' unless it comes with a solid level of respect. Disrespected = unloved to me.