Open7 Posted February 6, 2023 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2023 In Joshua 9, Israel have just entered the promised land and are looking to wipe out all the nations there, but in this chapter one of the nations deceives Israel by pretending they are from a distant land so Israel doesn’t attack them. Long story short, this nation deceives Israel and they end up joining them, becoming woodcutters and doing various tasks for them. I read in a commentary that compares this nation to rehab, in that they became a part of Israel. This is all good so far. But, what I don’t understand is that God originally wanted all these nations to be wiped out it seemed, but as we can see, there was a nation who ended up submitting to Israel and becoming a part of them, as far as I know then, becoming followers of the God of Israel. So it seems that God was originally going to wipe out a nation that actually would end up knowing him. It said in verse 14 that Israel didn’t consult God about letting them join them. From what I can see this nation was called the Hivites, it says in Deuteronomy 20:17 that the hivites should be destroyed. But why? When they ended up following God later? Hope I have explained this well enough. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted February 6, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.95 Reputation: 7,797 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2023 Do some study on the reason for pushing people out and even destroying many. The vestiges of the giant clans wer to be destroyed as an "offering" to YHWH. Read about Gen 6 and Enoch's account of the watchers (the angels that sinned). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 6, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,833 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2023 Blessings .. This lesson clearly shows God's Grace and Mercy- the Gebeonites ( Hivites) we're in fact a tribe of mighty warriors but when they had seen what the Israelites did to the others they feared the God of Israel and laid down their shields & swords looking for Peace instead, It is true that they tricked the Israelites but the fact that they feared God ,Revered Him and even served God with their own workmanship God Showed them Mercy and by His Grace they were Forgiven( sound familiar?❤️) Also,good to remember that God Has ForeKnowledge,I Believe He Knew that these people would repent,lay down their arms and serve Him in spite of how it came about- We Serve a God of Love,Compassion and Mercy So the story isn't so much about what Israel was supposed to do but more about God's Mercy towards the ones who had a change of heart I hope that helps With love in Christ, Kwik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted February 6, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.91 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2023 Joshua made a promise to them and he was obligated to keep it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open7 Posted February 6, 2023 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 6, 2023 6 hours ago, kwikphilly said: Blessings .. This lesson clearly shows God's Grace and Mercy- the Gebeonites ( Hivites) we're in fact a tribe of mighty warriors but when they had seen what the Israelites did to the others they feared the God of Israel and laid down their shields & swords looking for Peace instead, It is true that they tricked the Israelites but the fact that they feared God ,Revered Him and even served God with their own workmanship God Showed them Mercy and by His Grace they were Forgiven( sound familiar?❤️) Also,good to remember that God Has ForeKnowledge,I Believe He Knew that these people would repent,lay down their arms and serve Him in spite of how it came about- We Serve a God of Love,Compassion and Mercy So the story isn't so much about what Israel was supposed to do but more about God's Mercy towards the ones who had a change of heart I hope that helps With love in Christ, Kwik Super helpful Kwik, thanks so much this helps a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted February 6, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,824 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,813 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2023 7 hours ago, teddyv said: Joshua made a promise to them and he was obligated to keep it. @Open7 This, primarily, is the answer. A covenant was a serious deal. Joshua made the covenant without consulting God. Regardless, he HAD to keep it. Israel HAD to be seen as credible because they represented the LORD. This was such a big deal that King Saul - later - wanted to eradicate the Gibeonites and did kill many. By the time David was king, there was a huge three-year famine. David - wisely - sought God about it and God told David [2 Samuel 21] that the famine came become there was a "bloodguilt" on Saul's family because of the Gibeonites. David asked the remaining Gebeonites what to do to make amends. The Bible, in that passage, reiterates that these people were NOT Israelites. They said it's not our right to start killing Israelites and they said no silver or gold would make amends. David asked again what he could do. They told David to give them 7 of Saul's descendants to hang. David did, but he would not give them Jonathan's son, Mephibosheth. The seven men were hanged and that was that. The men hung were two sons and five grandsons of King Saul. When Israel entered into a covenant - it was binding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 6, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,833 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Open7 said: Super helpful Kwik, thanks so much this helps a lot So glad you think you- of course as the story moves forward then you see the results of breaking Covenant - there are always consequences for our actions,aren't there ? But yes,we serve a Merciful God- I thought that might be an answer pertinent to the specific time you were referencing .....Jaynes reply completes the equation,imo Nice to meet you btw In His Love, Kwik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com7fy8 Posted February 6, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 873 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 520 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2023 Why did God order the Jews to kill Gentile people when the Jews took their land? If the Jews kept the conquered people alive, those Gentiles could corrupt the Jews to turn away from the LORD. Also, they could breed with the Jews so there would be no blood line of Jews for giving rise to Jesus their Messiah. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted February 7, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.91 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2023 2 hours ago, com7fy8 said: Why did God order the Jews to kill Gentile people when the Jews took their land? If the Jews kept the conquered people alive, those Gentiles could corrupt the Jews to turn away from the LORD. Also, they could breed with the Jews so there would be no blood line of Jews for giving rise to Jesus their Messiah. Jesus bloodline has at least two Gentiles, Ruth and Rahab, in the genealogy. Not sure about Bathsheba, but she was married to a Hittite, so she may have been as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open7 Posted February 8, 2023 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 Hi all, after looking at this more I realise I’m still not satisfied. Apologies if I’m not getting it from the comments. Here’s what I’m stuck on. The law states to not make a covenant with any nation in Canaan (Exodus 34:15). However they do, and it seemed that the Gibeonites had a fear of God. If this is the case, they why did God devote all the inhabitants of Canaan to death, when later on, the law was broken and the Gibeonites feared God as a result. This then seems that there was hope for some of the people in Canaan after, but it took the breaking of the law to reveal this. If God knew this all along, why did he say they should all be wiped out in the first place? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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