Neighbor Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,718 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,112 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 11, 2023 9 hours ago, Mije said: Kind of a combative place here on Worthy. Lots of Bible verses but no imagination😂 Amen! Glory to God for that! I personally welcome you here to WCFas have and will many other participants, for all the discussion and even debate without personal attack, about faith and what one places faith within. Yes of course when one is in a worthy Christian forum there will be lots of references to Bible passages along with discussion of original settings intent and application for today for each of us. For there is knowledge gained from the word that comes to mind when asked about much of anything. The Bible is the basis for sorting out that which is useful and that which is not, even that which is simply distraction, a ministry practiced by oh so many that have not yet been called specifically by God the Holy Spirit to have understanding in the faith that is of Yeshua ( Jesus) and not of another god, nor of strong delusion ( imagination) which is indeed mentioned in the Bible as something given to some that have rejected God's specific call to them to turnabout to Jesus and receive him as their Lord. Distraction and the practicing of it is a condition or result of sin against God that may seem to manifest as mental illness; but is a spiritual decision's result. On a practical level; imagining is a poor cousin to envisioning. It is better to learn what is and envision how to utilize it then to imagine what is not and live out a fallacious folly thinking it some mysterious wisdom. A blind person does not imagine the existence of a braille panel on a elevator wall, they envision how to utilize that panel in order to function, despite a limitation in eyesight. The blind may enter an elevator and imagine it going up and down all day long, but it won't be going up and down at all. Not until they envision the panel that they have worked hard to understand and then find it and utilize it as they envision it's function built special for their use. When they reach the floor they desire to be on it will not be result of their imagination; but instead of sound envisioning. Same is true of the blind in faith. There is lack of envisioning of how the Holy Spirit enables use of the faith of Jesus. Once the imaginer turns about from rejection of that enabling which is by the Holy Spirit to receiving it a whole universe of envisionment opens up to be appreciated. Stick around please, enjoy the sights and sounds so to speak of many that have been humbled from their own imaginations to seeing, and envisioning, that which is awesome to behold. We are indeed having an awesome good time. Welcome Pilgrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mije Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 162 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/26/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/28/1967 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) So you don’t think that a blind person ‘sees’ something in a person’s face that a sighted person cannot? My original post: Is faith an outgrowth of mental illness? Or is it inflamed by it? I see where I misstepped- in an effort to place a hook I misled the forum. I tried to clarify, let me try again. Can mental illness produce a faith that is passionate and imaginative in a way that ‘normal people’ do not experience? C.S. Lewis: Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning. Edited February 11, 2023 by Mije Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 962 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,718 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,112 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Mije said: Can mental illness produce a faith that is passionate and imaginative in a way that ‘normal people’ do not experience? Hi, I suggest the answer is no. Mental illness is a rather broad term. Lets reduce it for the moment to say depressive mental disorder: and then ask can the faith of Jesus and one's personal reliance upon that faith of God the Son result in a wearisome level of fatigue, with a physical manifestation, leading into a depressive disorder? Perhaps it can be so; as it seems Rabbi Paul of Tarsus did weary greatly. But that is not a matter of faith it is more likely the result of working without proper time of retreat ( resting in the Lord). In more modern by comparison times Pastor John Calvin drove himself to despair with some pretty obsessive efforts of trying to live faith. I personally think it to have been finding faith in self to be fallacous, which it always is, and still trying to overcome that flaw. Instead of allowing the total covering of all flaws by the shed blood of Jesus. -Just a personal thought- Rev.Charles Hadden Spurgeon long suffered from depression to the point of physical illness and even a relatively young age for death. Yet he envisioned much of what God has shared to be to absorbed and shared of passionately, generously, and brilliantly. He did it, so much so, as to be called the prince of pastors. Were these men crazed, mentally deficient, deceived? No, they were not. They worked to exhaustion to study, pray, and think, upon the word of God. They prepared to be able to share of it well, defending the gospel of Jesus. Filling the assignment of God they were each given to shar ein order that many may be found mature in Christ Jesus at his quick and sudden return. Is there a direct relationship, a cause and effect between faith, imagination and mental illness? No. No with the singular exception that God does turn some individuals over to their own strong delusion for reason. " The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter." Praise God for his mercy from everlasting to everlasting, with which we then need not rely upon our own imagination, our own delusions. Instead we have certainty in Christ Jesus, in His faith not ours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mije Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 162 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/26/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/28/1967 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 You mention Paul, Calvin, and Spurgeon as suffering from depression but then say their contributions are laudable- are you saying they were great in spite of their affliction as opposed to my suggestion that they were aided by their affliction? I can see that, but it is ironic then that the greatest among us are the ones with the greatest afflictions- in all fields it would seem. I want to make sense of depression and mania and how it colors perception. If one can’t trust perception then how do they serve in the way these men did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,147 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,843 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 7:17 AM, Mr. M said: 2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. The inner working of the mind of Christ will always seem "inflamed to illness" to one of reprobate mind. A sound mind is established in humility. Acts 20: 18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons, 19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews: Philippians 2: 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. 1 Corinthians 2:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ. Blessings- the very instant I read the Title of this thread the very same Scripture immediately came to mind There's nothing to add,Praise the Lord for a sound mind! With love in Christ, Kwik We can Believe God's Word or accept man's facts (Truth vs ???) "Woe is ME,I am sick" spirit of pride... love you references to humility,Humble ourselves to the Mighty Hand of God Most High! HALLELUYAH 🤗❤️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,147 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,843 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Mije said: So you don’t think that a blind person ‘sees’ something in a person’s face that a sighted person cannot? My original post: Is faith an outgrowth of mental illness? Or is it inflamed by it? I see where I misstepped- in an effort to place a hook I misled the forum. I tried to clarify, let me try again. Can mental illness produce a faith that is passionate and imaginative in a way that ‘normal people’ do not experience? C.S. Lewis: Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning. I suppose that depends on whether or not a person accepts mental illness as a matter of fact .... Personally ,I Accept God's Word,His Pronises and Believe with the Heart & Mind of Christ anyone can Overcome any manner of sickness and disease by the Deliverance that breaks the shackles & chains of bondage- this is the Power of Holy Spirit,the Mighty Hand of God! No limits to His Power and Authority! With love in Christ, Kwik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,056 Content Per Day: 1.60 Reputation: 600 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 Personally, I don't think any kind of mental illness can produce true faith. I also don't believe all faith is healthy and some CAN be forms of mental illness. Christians in Hollywood have a reputation of being fanatics. We've been misrepresented but some people are actually like that. I believe that true faith ( faith in Christ as Savior ) can only exist apart from mental illness. Of course, mentally ill people who are not able to comprehend the gospel have been extended saving grace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,056 Content Per Day: 1.60 Reputation: 600 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: I suppose that depends on whether or not a person accepts mental illness as a matter of fact .... Personally ,I Accept God's Word,His Pronises and Believe with the Heart & Mind of Christ anyone can Overcome any manner of sickness and disease by the Deliverance that breaks the shackles & chains of bondage- this is the Power of Holy Spirit,the Mighty Hand of God! No limits to His Power and Authority! With love in Christ, Kwik I'm not sure if I'm misreading your post or not, but are you suggesting that faith can cure everyone with mental illness? Just like physical disability, not all with true faith get healed. Some people with greater faith than us have to live with their disabilities. Sometimes, God's answer is no, regardless of how much faith we have. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,827 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,818 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 6:01 AM, Mije said: Is Faith an outgrowth of mental illness? Or, is it inflamed by it? Neither. Mental illness can no more produce faith than a hangnail, broken arm, cancer, or a migraine. Faith is a gift from God. Sometimes when people go through struggles, they try to be more trusting, full of faith, or seeking God more. Sometimes when people go through struggles, it attacks the faith. Most people in their lifetimes go through both. My depression/anxiety does not inflame my faith nor was my faith an outgrowth of my illness. God saved me and gifted me with the faith. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,147 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,843 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: I'm not sure if I'm misreading your post or not, but are you suggesting that faith can cure everyone with mental illness? Just like physical disability, not all with true faith get healed. Some people with greater faith than us have to live with their disabilities. Sometimes, God's answer is no, regardless of how much faith we have. Sometimes what we consider a ' disability" is not a disability at all- see Nick Vurtijek Testinony( spelling wrong no doubt) .Nick was born with no limbs,he is not disabled nor is he imperfect❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts