Is Faith an outgrowth of mental illness?

[Mije]

Yeah but…

but…

I didn’t suggest otherwise.

I’m wondering if faith is influenced by mental illness or if mental illness creates a passionate faith

[Michael37]

21 minutes ago, Mije said:

I’m wondering if faith is influenced by mental illness or if mental illness creates a passionate faith

So you say, and you appear to want someone to agree with you on both counts, which is a problem because you have created a strawman fallacy.

If mental illness was beneficial it wouldn't be an illness.

Yes, paint fumes do make some artists crazy.

Yes, there is a fine line between genius and madness.

No, faith, passionate or otherwise is not a product of mental illness.

No, because a mentally ill person expresses faith, passionate or otherwise that does not mean their illness is the cause of it.

 

[Mije]

Think of the blind man whose sense of touch is heightened, being able to feel more delicately to read braille or a face than a sighted person. Is it that far fetched that a mentally ill person would be able to tune in to his faith in a way unknown to a ‘sane’ person (if there is such a thing)?

In that sense isn’t faith inflamed by mental illness?
 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Mije

[Mije]

33 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

So you say, and you appear to want someone to agree with you on both counts, which is a problem because you have created a strawman fallacy.

And, they are the same thing… faith influenced by mental illness and mental illness creating a faith.

For example: I am singing because I am happy and I am happy because I am singing.
Is my thinking really that circular here?  

Edited February 11, 2023 by Mije

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Mije said:

’m wondering if faith is influenced by mental illness or if mental illness creates a passionate faith

Hi, seems to be an an errant scenario offering fallacious  choices of  answer from which to choose. I suggest that  fundamentally the presentation itself suffers basic error to the extreme. Which makes me wonder what is the real "product" that is being sold here?

Faith  of any human is fragile. The atheist  places his faith  in one's own abiliilty to reason to perform.

The deist places faith in  a deity  of which man has invented many.

Most faith systems rely on practice of rules of faith made by man and often attributed to a god or gods.

Christians do not have such  system. Christians come to learn and understand that faith is indeed fragile and that mankind always fails in faithing by his own power of reason and persuasion.

Instead of faith in self or systems, Christians rely on the faith of God which never fails, for God is perfect. Man's faith is not only imperfect, but fails often.  

Faith does come to individuals by hearing the inspired word of God,   the understanding of it enabled by the Holy Spirit's reveal of Jesus as Lord God and one's personal savior. Without God the Holy Spirit's call there is no understanding.

Faith that turns about a person from rejection of God to worship of God is God driven, not man driven. It is by the Holy Spirit making a very specific call to each individual to turn about and receive Yeshua ( Jesus) as their Lord God and savior to eternal life with God.

 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Mije said:

And, they are the same thing… faith influenced by mental illness and mental illness creating a faith.

For example: I am singing because I am happy and I am happy because I am singing.
Is my thinking really that circular here?  

I get that your question is a vehicle for you to promote something you believe to be true, and you don't want to be persuaded otherwise, but on a forum such as this where doctrinal errors are subject to reproof and correction it becomes a matter of whether Scripture supports your belief or not.

I believe the faith of all the faithful in the Bible was the result of them hearing from God by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Would you care to name anyone in the Bible whose faith was directly a result of them having a mental illness.  

Hebrews 11 has a list if you need to use it. 

Heb 11:1-2  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  (2)  For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

 

[Mije]

What a ridiculous logic- can you name someone in scripture representative of all human conditions? Of course not.

Doctrinal error? Over suggesting a mental condition might influence faith?

Mental illness is not a sin and it is not immune to the influence of God. And I have no opinion I am needing affirmed.

I merely thought it interesting to think that a supposed deficit may in some way become a positive.

Kind of a combative place here on Worthy. Lots of Bible verses but no imagination😂

 

[Marathoner]

14 hours ago, Mije said:

I’m not sure I follow some of the responses here. Anything taken to an extreme is unhealthy- hence the terms fundamentalist and extremist. 
And I don’t think you can make the case that mental illness is more prevalent in the non believing communities.

I notice from experience that mental illness pervades the art community and the teaching community, for example.

Mental illness is not necessarily a negative- it sparks great creativity. I’m just wondering if it also sparks great faith.

It's also widespread in military vets, law enforcement, medical professionals, service industry workers, and so on.

That's not the entire sample by any means. Psychological issues are common to us all and I'm no exception. On account of what I suffered and witnessed under my parents' roof, I started struggling with depression by the age of 10. 

When the Lord called to me out of the blue I was living with recurring, cyclic depression which grew worse as the years passed by. Little wonder why: 

I have endured much hardness and deprivation during my time on this earth. I have witnessed things which tore me apart or were most certainly fatal, and I only survived because of the grace of Jesus Christ who preserved me for His purpose. He preserves us all, my friend.

Is it insanity that the words of the Lord contradict the relentless narrative of depression? That, despairing of life as I once did, the Spirit declared that I shall live, and do so abundantly? That He will never abandon nor forsake me?

The Lord promised that He is faithful to complete that work which He started in me. During those days when I labored mightily against suffering and despair, this was all He required of me:

To endure the trial knowing that we only suffer for a little while. I couldn't see clearly back then nor was I able to believe or even  understand His words. We know that His word is the antithesis of worldly sorrow, or that sorrow which leads to death. 

It wasn't until the conclusion of the trial that I finally understood what the Lord required of me, which is also that purpose the Holy One preserved me for:

To display His power in me to the glory of God, so that His name will be magnified in the land of the living. First, the Lord did the impossible, reversing the course of a fatal genetic disease which guaranteed that I wouldn't live past the age of 40 (granulomatous disease).  Indeed, I was in my early 40s when I was close to death. Not only did the Lord cause me to live and not die, but He changed this body of flesh and blood so that this genetic disease vanished. The physical evidence of what I suffered many years ago was recently captured by CT scans. It was catastrophic.

Second, I suffered considerable brain damage from that ordeal, and it pleased the Lord to rejuvenate injured regions so that those who were close to me would witness His power unfold yet again before their eyes. They knew the state I was in, how I could barely speak, think, or care for myself. When the Lord was finished with this work, my adopted mother wept tears of joy. I was returned to her side by the Lord who loves her.

Third, the Lord confounded my physicians at the Veterans Administration, who diagnosed me with a rare form of muscular dystrophy which emerges during late middle age (oculopharyngeal muscular dystrophy). One day, a VA Neurologist informed me that I was looking at life in a wheelchair on account of affected muscles in my hips and legs. Over time, my legs were becoming progressively weaker and lost muscle tone and mass. I accepted this as the will of the Lord,  who gives and takes as it pleases Him. 

I woke one morning because my legs felt so strange; they tingled and felt swollen. I was shocked to discover that the muscles in both legs were rock-hard and fuller than they had been in years. I leapt out of bed... I jumped up and down... and then I raced up and down the stairs in my apartment building. Later that day, I felt like I could run a marathon! I wept because of what the Lord had done, and still do whenever I think of that day last year. 

I never asked Him for a thing, for His grace has always been more than sufficient for me. I am blessed beyond measure for the Lord is more wonderful than my words can express. Knowing Him is the greatest honor a man or woman can know. There is nothing that compares!

Insanity? No. Jesus Christ lifts us up from hardness and suffering and hides our lives within Himself. We suffer for only a little while.

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Mije said:

Doctrinal error? Over suggesting a mental condition might influence faith?

Yeah. It's called contending earnestly for the faith as per Jude 1:3-4. I am passionate about it.

When it comes to faith in God being the result of mental illness some atheists do more than suggest it, they insist on it. Dawkins wrote a book called "The God Delusion". 

And then there's this guy:

 Quote: Religious people have mental illness, neuroscientist warns - Punch Newspapers (punchng.com)

A professor at Stanford University, Robert Sapolsky, has said that religion is a mental illness, and that the behaviours exhibited by ‘prophets’ in religious texts are diagnosable acts. The self-described atheist, who is also a neuroendocrinologist, argues that religion is comparable to a shared schizophrenia. 

Thank God for Paul and Timothy's faith and these verses:

2Ti 3:14-17  But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,  (15)  and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.  (16)  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,  (17)  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

[Marilyn C]

On 2/9/2023 at 10:31 PM, Mije said:

Or, is it inflamed by it?

Hi Mije,

As we all walked in darkness then our mental state was not good, but ill.

As to `faith in God, ` we are told that `God has dealt to each a measure of faith. ` It is therefore up to each to humble themselves before God and start to exercise that faith, belief, and trust in God. And that takes a lifetime of learning and experience. 

Thus, to answer your question - No, faith is not an outgrowth of mental illness, but a gift of God.