FreeGrace Posted February 19, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,465 Content Per Day: 8.06 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mr. M said: {my comment was directed to Selah7, not Kwik. "Why are you not willing, apparently, to recognize Judas Iscariot as an elected one?"} The Elect are established in God's Purpose, (even Judas, "that the scripture may be fulfilled") Until someone knows their ordained purpose In Christ, their election is confined to adapting (conforming) to the Body of Christ. [double click fail. But Judas was chosen to conforming to the Body of Christ.] The Elect lead the flock into this Way. 2 Timothy 1: 8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, I find most established believers are well versed on Grace, but often short on Purpose. Agreed. Some posters seem unwilling to accept that election does not relate to salvation, even though there are no verses that say God elects to salvation. It should be obvious from 1 Cor 1:21 that "God is pleased...to save those who believe", but the common belief is that God chooses who will believe, which is in error. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com7fy8 Posted February 19, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 873 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 520 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) In the Bible . . . the word "elect" is used to refer to the ones Jesus will gather when Jesus returns > Matthew 24:31. So, "elect" is not only talking about people who have been chosen to begin serving Jesus on this earth. Also, "elect" refers to Jesus who is "precious" > 1 Peter 2:6. Why is Jesus elect? Not only for serving! But because of how Jesus is so pleasing to our Father as His own Son, He is chosen and elect and precious. And what is the main focus of serving? I would say Romans 8:29 can help with this > "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren ." (Romans 8:29) So, serving mainly ministers for us to become and to love like Jesus . . . as I would say Paul says in Colossians 1:28-29. Edited February 19, 2023 by com7fy8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com7fy8 Posted February 19, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 873 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 520 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2023 21 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: Sending them out to preach is certainly a service. Jesus wasn't lonely and wanted friends. But first it says they were chosen "that they might be with Him". And I have offered why . . . certainly, as you say, not because of loneliness. But in Romans 8:29 we have that our Father desires that Jesus is "the firstborn among many brethren." Not because of loneliness . . . but our Father is so pleased with Jesus, that He desires to have many children who also are so pleasing to Him. So, our being elect includes how our Father desires this, I would say. And our serving includes ministering the grace which affects our character so we are and love like Jesus > 1 Peter 4:9-10 > Ephesians 4:15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted February 19, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,885 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Selah7 said: It’s God who does the electing. Jesus is God. You are in a Cross road ...Paul had learn to distinguish Jesus Christ from God or the Heavenly Father... Non of the disciples ever spoke these words in this manner and Fashion. Jesus is God .....to the Statement that "is God who does the election "....If Paul said that, then he said that to reference to the Heavenly Father....it is the same as if Paul had said: it is the Heavenly Father who does the election....he said it is God who does the election and it is not up to you to fill in what Paul said when Paul has done this himself...if you want to find out read carefully the greetings of Paul at the beginning of his letters... Ephesians 1:3 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted February 19, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.32 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 6.90 Reputation: 1,802 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted February 19, 2023 39 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: Agreed. Some posters seem unwilling to accept that election does not relate to salvation, even though there are no verses that say God elects to salvation. It should be obvious from 1 Cor 1:21 that "God is pleased...to save those who believe", but the common belief is that God chooses who will believe, which is in error. He has called us to Glory in His Kingdom. (another topic?) 1 Thessalonians 2:12 that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted February 19, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,885 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, FreeGrace said: Agreed. Some posters seem unwilling to accept that election does not relate to salvation, even though there are no verses that say God elects to salvation. It should be obvious from 1 Cor 1:21 that "God is pleased...to save those who believe", but the common belief is that God chooses who will believe, which is in error. Paul was chosen. to Salvation...Jesus appeared to him and he believed when he heard that Jesus was the one who had appeared to him... Paul asked who are you Lord...because at that time he believe that the Light of God had appeared to him and he asked who are you....because he could not see and the moment the light shine he was blind....and he knew about the light of God in Moses face....he asked who are you he knew someone from God had appeared to him.... And Paul believed...but he was not Judged he remained alive...and he understood that he was recruited by Jesus like the other disciples and he asked him what you want me to do... The Cornelius family was chosen to be Saved...with the way God send Peter to them...the Gentiles were chosen to be saved by the Gospel of Jesus Christ... The elect of God with Jesus Christ...with the Gospel were not the Israelites...till that time the elect people of God were the Israelites...they were the elect in Abraham and in the New Covenant the elect people of God are those in Jesus Christ... Paul used the word elect to Judge those still in the Law of Moses....telling the believers that you are the elect people of God in Jesus Christ and that God has only children in Jesus Christ the new family of God... All the time trying to distinguish the people of God as being the believers in Jesus Christ....and by that Judging those under the Law who still boasted that they were the elect people of God in Abraham and the Law.. It is the same thing Jesus said to Nicodemus that the new family of God is in the way. And you need to be included in the new family of God by believing in him after his death on the Cross....the New family of God sealed with the Spirit of God...with the Heavenly Inheritance....and the Life...the eternal Life who is Jesus.... This is it ...the Final family of God....it will not be another on the way...the eternal family of God.... Edited February 19, 2023 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 19, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,465 Content Per Day: 8.06 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2023 3 hours ago, com7fy8 said: But first it says they were chosen "that they might be with Him". And I have offered why . . . certainly, as you say, not because of loneliness. The Great Commission was to go out and "teach the disciples everything I have commanded you". That's again...service. iow, they were chosen to "be with" Him in order for Him to teach THEM. 3 hours ago, com7fy8 said: But in Romans 8:29 we have that our Father desires that Jesus is "the firstborn among many brethren." Not because of loneliness . . . but our Father is so pleased with Jesus, that He desires to have many children who also are so pleasing to Him. So, our being elect includes how our Father desires this, I would say. And our serving includes ministering the grace which affects our character so we are and love like Jesus > 1 Peter 4:9-10 > Ephesians 4:15. Correct! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 19, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,465 Content Per Day: 8.06 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2023 50 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Paul was chosen. to Salvation...Jesus appeared to him and he believed when he heard that Jesus was the one who had appeared to him... Actually, it is not possible to know precisely WHEN Paul realized that Jesus was the Messiah. He had 3 days in very deep thought. He had a vision of Ananias placing hands on him which restored his sight. The initial vision on the road certainly got his attention, but there were many things that occurred to jar him. The Bible simply doesn't say when Paul believed in Him. But one thing is for certain, once Ananias visited him and restored his sight, and baptized him, he: Acts 9:20 - At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. Suggesting that Ananias led Him to faith in Christ. 50 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Paul asked who are you Lord...because at that time he believe that the Light of God had appeared to him and he asked who are you....because he could not see and the moment the light shine he was blind....and he knew about the light of God in Moses face....he asked who are you he knew someone from God had appeared to him.... And Paul believed...but he was not Judged he remained alive...and he understood that he was recruited by Jesus like the other disciples and he asked him what you want me to do... See above. 50 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: The Cornelius family was chosen to be Saved...with the way God send Peter to them...the Gentiles were chosen to be saved by the Gospel of Jesus Christ... Nope. No one is "chosen to be saved" unless you mean that God chooses to "save those who believe, per 1 Cor 1:21. Most calvinists view election as God choosing who will believe. Not biblical. 50 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: The elect of God with Jesus Christ...with the Gospel were not the Israelites...till that time the elect people of God were the Israelites...they were the elect in Abraham and in the New Covenant the elect people of God are those in Jesus Christ... Sorry to inform you that this doesn't make sense. Read it aloud and see for youself. 50 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Paul used the word elect to Judge those still in the Law of Moses....telling the believers that you are the elect people of God in Jesus Christ and that God has only children in Jesus Christ the new family of God... Paul never used the word 'elect' to judge anyone. 50 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: All the time trying to distinguish the people of God as being the believers in Jesus Christ....and by that Judging those under the Law who still boasted that they were the elect people of God in Abraham and the Law.. It is the same thing Jesus said to Nicodemus that the new family of God is in the way. And you need to be included in the new family of God by believing in him after his death on the Cross....the New family of God sealed with the Spirit of God...with the Heavenly Inheritance....and the Life...the eternal Life who is Jesus.... This is it ...the Final family of God....it will not be another on the way...the eternal family of God.... There is only one family of God. All those who believe in His Son for salvation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,147 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,840 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 8 hours ago, FreeGrace said: Actually, it is not possible to know precisely WHEN Paul realized that Jesus was the Messiah. He had 3 days in very deep thought. He had a vision of Ananias placing hands on him which restored his sight. The initial vision on the road certainly got his attention, but there were many things that occurred to jar him. The Bible simply doesn't say when Paul believed in Him. But one thing is for certain, once Ananias visited him and restored his sight, and baptized him, he: Acts 9:20 - At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. Suggesting that Ananias led Him to faith in Christ. See above. Nope. No one is "chosen to be saved" unless you mean that God chooses to "save those who believe, per 1 Cor 1:21. Most calvinists view election as God choosing who will believe. Not biblical. Sorry to inform you that this doesn't make sense. Read it aloud and see for youself. Paul never used the word 'elect' to judge anyone. There is only one family of God. All those who believe in His Son for salvation. Thank you,I do think you explain so simply- far better than I do imo -always enjoy what you share for everyone- Praise Jesus! "Chosen to be Saved"- not so "Called" or "Drawn to "- sure thing. You must BELIEVE JESUS,He is the only WAY,the Truth and the Life! I love God's Word - Everything we need to Know and will ever need to Know is Written--- it's Amazing that it's Already Written,before we even ask anything our Answers are already there,God IS Awesome!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,885 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, kwikphilly said: Thank you,I do think you explain so simply- far better than I do imo -always enjoy what you share for everyone- Praise Jesus! "Chosen to be Saved"- not so "Called" or "Drawn to "- sure thing. You must BELIEVE JESUS,He is the only WAY,the Truth and the Life! I love God's Word - Everything we need to Know and will ever need to Know is Written--- it's Amazing that it's Already Written,before we even ask anything our Answers are already there,God IS Awesome!!!! Hi Kwik, Why do you say "that you must believe Jesus " as if someone has said something to the contrary... No one has said that Paul was saved without believing Jesus...no one has taken that position... Jesus did not preach the Gospel to him when he appeared to him on the way to Damascus.. The truth is that Jesus had comission his disciples to preach the Gospel...He did not preached the Gospel to no one on earth....to no one and this is truth in Paul's case... Paul had heard the Gospel of Jesus too many times from the people whom he persecute..so many times that he knew everything about becausehestrongly oppose it ( that'swhat Jesussaid) ..and we can understand this on our own we do not need any one to convince us or to see it written some place in the bible and to deny it if it is not written in the bible... We do not even need Stephen preaching and Paul listening and we do not need the words of Jesus who is telling Paul that he persist to not believe in him even though he has come to understand something about the Gospel...a lot of things but he had been dig in his heels to resist the call to believe and he had strenuously opposed it.... Sure he had discus it with the other Jews and also how to oppose and how to try to bring back to Judaism those of the Jews who had believe in Jesus Christ...that's what is also happening today...we know what the Jews believe and the Jews know what we believe... Paul knew the context of the Gospel and when Jesus told him "that I am Jesus whom you persecute" That very moment Paul believed...who would not believe? Ask ones self if anyone was in Paul's place he would believe, ...not only because of the bright light...but from the presence of Jesus Christ...Paul was exposed to the Holy presence of Jesus Christ...if that happens to someone then they will know what it is all about... But also from the testimony of Jesus who told him who he was...Jesus knew that when he will appear to Paul in the way he did that Paul will surrender and he will believe in him... Jesus did that to convince Paul to believe...Paul was not saved before he believed no one had said that in the conversation between me and the brother... The brother said he did not understand when exactly Paul believed...but he can say that for himself...or he could have said as till now I cannot figure it out...but he cannot speak for anyone else... because he did not understand when Paul must have believe then no one can say when Paul believed... Certainly the Lord said to Ananias that he is in Simon's house and he is praying.... Jesus also said to Ananias that he is a chosen vessel that he has chosen him to preach the Gospel and suffer for the Gospel...Jesus said all those things about Paul without Paul knowing anything...of the plans Jesus had for him... Jesus also said that Paul had see a vision of Ananias putting his hands on him and received his sight...Jesus said to Ananias that Paul is waiting for you...surely Paul did not prayed as an unbeliever and he did not wait to be healed as an unbeliever and believe later on... The brother needs to read the scriptures anew...not just from fainting memory... In that passage there is nothing to support what some believe who call them selves by different names like calvinist or something else...no mention of what they believe is in that passage with Paul... Jesus knew that Paul will believe as he knew that many of the people who benefitted from his miracles will believe and their family will believe and many who witness the miracles will believe and those who already believe their faith will get stronger...in all that we understand the work of the Holy Spirit and also we understand the working of the Spirit of the Antichrist... Paul gave us a good teaching about that... Of course everyone has to believe in Jesus Christ...if not how he can have the eternal Life who is Jesus or how he can have the righteousness of Jesus Christ or be in his righteousness and how he can be in his righteousness if he does not have his sins forgiven in Jesus Christ... With Paul one more time we are exposed in the same way as when we are exposed to what happen during Peter's visit to Cornelius...that faith is in the heart of the believer and Jesus can see it... With this it is not my place to say to anyone do not do this or do not do that...but only to understand that we are asking believers in Jesus Christ to do this or to do that...we are asking people in the righteousness and in the eternal Life to do this or that.. Jesus said that he had plans for Paul before Paul even knew anything about them...this is in line with the scriptures that our lives are hidden with Jesus Christ...and that does not mean that we will walk in the plans Jesus has for us...it is not compulsory or is not a Salvation issue...but we may walk in the path Jesus has for us and we may not know it or we may thing that we are when we are and we are not... This is why we have to wait on the Lord and do what we think we should do...and for everyone is a different path...who knows the very specific plans and the right timing he has for everyone even though we often act that we know...no one knew the plans Jesus had for Philip and if they did they would prevent him to preach the Gospel to the Enuch and to go alone to the Judea villages while the prosecution or some form of persecution was on from the hard core Jews....and they did not preached the Gospel to the Samaritans so surely they would not allowed him to go to them...a similar situation with Peter and the Gentile family of Cornelius... They were chosen to believe from the Gospel preached to them from Peter... Edited February 20, 2023 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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