kwikphilly Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,138 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,819 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: Hi Kwik, Why do you say "that you must believe Jesus " as if someone has said something to the contrary... No one has said that Paul was saved without believing Jesus...no one has taken that position... Jesus did not preach the Gospel to him when he appeared to him on the way to Damascus.. The truth is that Jesus had comission his disciples to preach the Gospel...He did not preached the Gospel to no one on earth....to no one and this is truth in Paul's case... Paul had heard the Gospel of Jesus too many times from the people whom he persecute..so many times that he knew everything about becausehestrongly oppose it ( that'swhat Jesussaid) ..and we can understand this on our own we do not need any one to convince us or to see it written some place in the bible and to deny it if it is not written in the bible... We do not even need Stephen preaching and Paul listening and we do not need the words of Jesus who is telling Paul that he persist to not believe in him even though he has come to understand something about the Gospel...a lot of things but he had been dig in his heels to resist the call to believe and he had strenuously opposed it.... Sure he had discus it with the other Jews and also how to oppose and how to try to bring back to Judaism those of the Jews who had believe in Jesus Christ...that's what is also happening today...we know what the Jews believe and the Jews know what we believe... Paul knew the context of the Gospel and when Jesus told him "that I am Jesus whom you persecute" That very moment Paul believed...who would not believe? Ask ones self if anyone was in Paul's place he would believe, ...not only because of the bright light...but from the presence of Jesus Christ...Paul was exposed to the Holy presence of Jesus Christ...if that happens to someone then they will know what it is all about... But also from the testimony of Jesus who told him who he was...Jesus knew that when he will appear to Paul in the way he did that Paul will surrender and he will believe in him... Jesus did that to convince Paul to believe...Paul was not saved before he believed no one had said that in the conversation between me and the brother... The brother said he did not understand when exactly Paul believed...but he can say that for himself...or he could have said as till now I cannot figure it out...but he cannot speak for anyone else... because he did not understand when Paul must have believe then no one can say when Paul believed... Certainly the Lord said to Ananias that he is in Simon's house and he is praying.... Jesus also said to Ananias that he is a chosen vessel that he has chosen him to preach the Gospel and suffer for the Gospel...Jesus said all those things about Paul without Paul knowing anything...of the plans Jesus had for him... Jesus also said that Paul had see a vision of Ananias putting his hands on him and received his sight...Jesus said to Ananias that Paul is waiting for you...surely Paul did not prayed as an unbeliever and he did not wait to be healed as an unbeliever and believe later on... The brother needs to read the scriptures anew...not just from fainting memory... In that passage there is nothing to support what some believe who call them selves by different names like calvinist or something else...no mention of what they believe is in that passage with Paul... Jesus knew that Paul will believe as he knew that many of the people who benefitted from his miracles will believe and their family will believe and many who witness the miracles will believe and those who already believe their faith will get stronger...in all that we understand the work of the Holy Spirit and also we understand the working of the Spirit of the Antichrist... Paul gave us a good teaching about that... Of course everyone has to believe in Jesus Christ...if not how he can have the eternal Life who is Jesus or how he can have the righteousness of Jesus Christ or be in his righteousness and how he can be in his righteousness if he does not have his sins forgiven in Jesus Christ... With Paul one more time we are exposed in the same way as when we are exposed to what happen during Peter's visit to Cornelius...that faith is in the heart of the believer and Jesus can see it... With this it is not my place to say to anyone do not do this or do not do that...but only to understand that we are asking believers in Jesus Christ to do this or to do that...we are asking people in the righteousness and in the eternal Life to do this or that.. Jesus said that he had plans for Paul before Paul even knew anything about them...this is in line with the scriptures that our lives are hidden with Jesus Christ...and that does not mean that we will walk in the plans Jesus has for us...it is not compulsory or is not a Salvation issue...but we may walk in the path Jesus has for us and we may not know it or we may thing that we are when we are and we are not... This is why we have to wait on the Lord and do what we think we should do...and for everyone is a different path...who knows the very specific plans and the right timing he has for everyone even though we often act that we know...no one knew the plans Jesus had for Philip and if they did they would prevent him to preach the Gospel to the Enuch and to go alone to the Judea villages while the prosecution or some form of persecution was on from the hard core Jews....and they did not preached the Gospel to the Samaritans so surely they would not allowed him to go to them...a similar situation with Peter and the Gentile family of Cornelius... They were chosen to believe from the Gospel preached to them from Peter... I read your first sentence and stopped right there- I quoted FreeGrace in Agreement with what he said. There is no " as if" in what I said- you've assumed something that is not there so if you are looking for something contrary to the Word of God to debate you are looking in the wrong place If you had a question you could simply ask it without the "'as if"- ask instead of assume .I do not read posts that are heading for a tangent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) My drive-by opinion is that this is one of those things that I believe we shouldn't be too dogmatic about, remembering that we at best only know in part this side of heaven. Who can fathom the Lord? To begin with He exists outside of time and that is a hard thing for anyone to get our heads around.....the bible says we're elect according to His foreknowledge and that He knew us from the foundation of the world. He has mercy on who He wants to have mercy and He hardens who He will.....we'll probably never know why He decided to have mercy on us individually in this life. For one thing His purposes have a lot to do with making His power known, and manifold wisdom known, to the powers and principalities, so it's not even all about us. Good to keep in mind He has chosen the weak things to shame the strong. Maybe one factor is that we were just so hapless and helpless like deer caught in the headlights that He felt sorry for us, and might be the terms "chosen" and "elect" are really a manner of speaking in a way, since the Lord often likes to elevate the lowly and lower the elevated, so to speak. Edited February 20, 2023 by Heleadethme 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,424 Content Per Day: 8.22 Reputation: 610 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 hours ago, kwikphilly said: Thank you,I do think you explain so simply- far better than I do imo -always enjoy what you share for everyone- Praise Jesus! "Chosen to be Saved"- not so "Called" or "Drawn to "- sure thing. You must BELIEVE JESUS,He is the only WAY,the Truth and the Life! I love God's Word - Everything we need to Know and will ever need to Know is Written--- it's Amazing that it's Already Written,before we even ask anything our Answers are already there,God IS Awesome!!!! Amen! Thanks for your kind words. I too love God's Word and what He has revealed to us through it. I'm very eager to have my "gaps" filled in when I get to eternity. Not to say I'm looking for ways to get there. That is in God's hands. Just looking forward to it. Speaking of which, since God created the universe, obviously He resided outside of it when He created it. So, when a believer dies, they are escorted to the 3rd heaven, which means travelling through all of the universe and leave it. Can you imagine that journey!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,138 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,819 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: Amen! Thanks for your kind words. I too love God's Word and what He has revealed to us through it. I'm very eager to have my "gaps" filled in when I get to eternity. Not to say I'm looking for ways to get there. That is in God's hands. Just looking forward to it. Speaking of which, since God created the universe, obviously He resided outside of it when He created it. So, when a believer dies, they are escorted to the 3rd heaven, which means travelling through all of the universe and leave it. Can you imagine that journey!! Nope,I can't begin to imagine what the unseen realm is like or what awaits us when we are Finished with these bags of bones,lol❤️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.10 Reputation: 1,797 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted February 20, 2023 51 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: . Can you imagine that journey!! Just don't blink! 1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.36 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 7.10 Reputation: 1,797 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, FreeGrace said: Amen! Thanks for your kind words. I too love God's Word and what He has revealed to us through it. I'm very eager to have my "gaps" filled in when I get to eternity. Not to say I'm looking for ways to get there. That is in God's hands. Just looking forward to it. Speaking of which, since God created the universe, obviously He resided outside of it when He created it. So, when a believer dies, they are escorted to the 3rd heaven, which means travelling through all of the universe and leave it. Can you imagine that journey!! I don't want to derail this thread, but if you would be willing to start a new topic, I am interested in where this idea of a "journey to eternity" comes from, and in particular, what you mean by "having gaps filled". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,424 Content Per Day: 8.22 Reputation: 610 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Mr. M said: Just don't blink! 1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. I wasn't referring to our resurrection, but death, when we are ushered into the presence of the Lord. 1 Cor 15:52-52 is about our resurrection. All the dead saints will come down to earth from heaven, and all the living believers will be caught up "in the clouds" or "in the air" to meet the Lord. Since the resurrection of all believers is at the Second Advent (1 Cor 15:23) there will be no trip up to heaven, as the King will set up His MK and all believers, now in resurrection bodies, will be reigning with, or serving Him in His kingdom. On earth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,424 Content Per Day: 8.22 Reputation: 610 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Mr. M said: I don't want to derail this thread, but if you would be willing to start a new topic, I am interested in where this idea of a "journey to eternity" comes from, and in particular, what you mean by "having gaps filled". I don't think we need a new thread, since my reply is short. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, angels carried Laz to Paradise. So there will be escorts involved. Of course, we have no knowledge about the speed of angels. I doubt the idea of being "beamed up" like on star trek. I'm just looking forward to the event, for whatever it will be. Regarding my "gaps" I refer to all what I don't know and can't wait to learn. 1 Cor 13:12 - Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted February 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,400 Content Per Day: 12.14 Reputation: 3,269 Days Won: 31 Joined: 11/18/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said: AMEN!!!..Brilliant post,Sis ,and so well explained..Praise the Lord, for this information that certainly spoke to my heart!..🙏💗 @Rosie1jack2pauline3 Election is indeed a very humbling doctrine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted February 22, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,854 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) On 2/20/2023 at 7:26 AM, Heleadethme said: To begin with He exists outside of time and that is a hard thing for anyone to get our heads around..... This is quite interesting...that makes a lot of sense... Someone had to give him birth in Bethlehem...and we have the Shepherds and the witness of the Angels... If you are looking for someone else who was before the world was Created before the earthly time began where we do not know that and we do not have a record of that. From the record we have we can tell that the one who created everything and man it was not Jesus. To have Jesus we must have Abraham first...because Jesus was born among the Children of Abraham among the people of God, among the Nation of God...he was one of them..the woman who have him birth can testify about that and she can tell when she celebrated his first and second and third birthday....and so on.. On 2/20/2023 at 7:26 AM, Heleadethme said: the bible says we're elect according to His foreknowledge and that He knew us from the foundation of the world. On 2/20/2023 at 7:26 AM, Heleadethme said: He has mercy on who He wants to have mercy and He hardens who He will..... On 2/20/2023 at 7:26 AM, Heleadethme said: we'll probably never know why He decided to have mercy on us individually in this life. For one thing His purposes have a lot to do with making His power known, and manifold wisdom known, to the powers and principalities, so it's not even all about us. On 2/20/2023 at 7:26 AM, Heleadethme said: Good to keep in mind He has chosen the weak things to shame the strong. Maybe one factor is that we were just so hapless and helpless like deer caught in the headlights that He felt sorry for us, and might be the terms "chosen" and "elect" are really a manner of speaking in a way, since the Lord often likes to elevate the lowly and lower the elevated, so to speak. Edited February 22, 2023 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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