R. Hartono Posted March 5, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,938 Content Per Day: 3.06 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Yes to that but they did no go to Heaven in the same way Jesus went to Heaven... Can you distinguish the deference between them and Jesus.... They were a lot of witnesses when Jesus as he was talking to them he began to ascend to Heaven... For Elijah we have quite a lot of information and it was foretold to him that the Lord will take him up and Elisa was with him and he witness everything and Elijah throw to him his mantle while on the way up on the chariot.. And the school of the prophets knew that the Lord will take up Elijah without Elijah telling them nothing what was about to happen. With Enoch we do not know much only that "he walked with God" and one time he did not come back...supposing that the Lord took him...we do not know how exactly because it was not given to us...we do not have the details...and if he knew before hand and he let his family know... Certainly his family did not hold a burial without his body... To say that "you did not say that Moses was not resurrected" is not enough... You ought to say what we have from scriptures and to begin with the scriptures when the Lord talk to Moses on Deuteronomy chapter 32:48-52 ... 48 On that same day the Lord told Moses, 49 “Go up into the Abarim Range to Mount Nebo in Moab, across from Jericho, and view Canaan, the land I am giving the Israelites as their own possession. 50 There on the mountain that you have climbed you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people. 51 This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites. 52 Therefore, you will see the land only from a distance; you will not enter the land I am giving to the people of Israel.” Take note that in verse 48 it says the Lord told Moses... And compared it with Deuteronomy 34:1-6 1. Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the plains of Moab to the top of Pisgah, across from Jericho. There the Lord showed him the whole land—from Gilead to Dan, 2 all of Naphtali, the territory of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the Mediterranean Sea, 3 the Negev and the whole region from the Valley of Jericho, the City of Palms, as far as Zoar. 4 Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when I said, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it.” 5 And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said. 6 He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. ********** Can you tell the differences when there were no witnesses because Moses went up to the mountain alone... no one else was with him....and you said that in Ch34:1-6 and who wrote Deuteronomy chapter 34... Keep in mind what the Lord told Moses in ch32:48-52. And compared it with ch34:1-6...when there was no one who can tell what happened to Moses... Hi, Bible says no one knows where Moses grave was, so it shows that Moses had been buried for sometimes. Do you agree ? But the devil knew it when Michael arrived on earth at Moses's tomb, did Michael come to that tomb to bury Moses ? Of course not. Imho Michael wanted to take Moses body to heaven for the resurrection. Edited March 5, 2023 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted March 5, 2023 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,946 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,869 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted March 5, 2023 32 minutes ago, R. Hartono said: Hi, Bible says no one knows where Moses grave was, so it shows that Moses had been buried for sometimes. Do you agree ? But the devil knew it when Michael arrived on earth at Moses's tomb, did Michael come to that tomb to bury Moses ? Of course not. Imho Michael wanted to take Moses body to heaven for the resurrection. We know from Scripture the archangel Michael disputed with the Devil over the body of Moses. We don't know from Scripture when this dispute took place. We don't know from Scripture where the dispute took place or whether the Devil knew the location of Moses' burial site. Bodies have to be glorified before they are accepted into heaven so that's a no to any Scripture-based argument that Michael was in the process of resurrecting Moses when the Devil tried to intervene. The Lord rebuke the errant ones who embellish His Word for perverse sport. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted March 5, 2023 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 1.62 Reputation: 589 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2023 7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Yes to that but they did no go to Heaven in the same way Jesus went to Heaven... Can you distinguish the deference between them and Jesus.... They were a lot of witnesses when Jesus as he was talking to them he began to ascend to Heaven... For Elijah we have quite a lot of information and it was foretold to him that the Lord will take him up and Elisa was with him and he witness everything and Elijah throw to him his mantle while on the way up on the chariot.. And the school of the prophets knew that the Lord will take up Elijah without Elijah telling them nothing what was about to happen. With Enoch we do not know much only that "he walked with God" and one time he did not come back...supposing that the Lord took him...we do not know how exactly because it was not given to us...we do not have the details...and if he knew before hand and he let his family know... Certainly his family did not hold a burial without his body... To say that "you did not say that Moses was not resurrected" is not enough... You ought to say what we have from scriptures and to begin with the scriptures when the Lord talk to Moses on Deuteronomy chapter 32:48-52 ... 48 On that same day the Lord told Moses, 49 “Go up into the Abarim Range to Mount Nebo in Moab, across from Jericho, and view Canaan, the land I am giving the Israelites as their own possession. 50 There on the mountain that you have climbed you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people. 51 This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites. 52 Therefore, you will see the land only from a distance; you will not enter the land I am giving to the people of Israel.” Take note that in verse 48 it says the Lord told Moses... And compared it with Deuteronomy 34:1-6 1. Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the plains of Moab to the top of Pisgah, across from Jericho. There the Lord showed him the whole land—from Gilead to Dan, 2 all of Naphtali, the territory of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the Mediterranean Sea, 3 the Negev and the whole region from the Valley of Jericho, the City of Palms, as far as Zoar. 4 Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when I said, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it.” 5 And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said. 6 He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. ********** Can you tell the differences when there were no witnesses because Moses went up to the mountain alone... no one else was with him....and you said that in Ch34:1-6 and who wrote Deuteronomy chapter 34... Keep in mind what the Lord told Moses in ch32:48-52. And compared it with ch34:1-6...when there was no one who can tell what happened to Moses... I have to admit your answers are confusing to me. You always seem to answer in a way that has very little to do with what I said. So I will state one last time what I have already stated previously. Moses DID die and has NOT been resurrected. He is still buried and No One knows where. I have no idea what you mean by these so called witnesses. Moses died alone and God buried him somewhere. Chapter 34 was either written by Joshua or by Moses before his death. Elijah was taken up into heaven without dying. He was never buried and has been in heaven since before Christ came to earth. This also confirms that people DID go to heaven before the crucifixion. The idea that they didn't isn't found in scripture and makes no logical sense. Show me a few passages that teach that the dead didn't go to heaven. There aren't any. This is a common false belief that comes from too many Christians listening to their pastors instead of the Holy Spirit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted March 6, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.64 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2023 On 2/28/2023 at 6:06 PM, R. Hartono said: As Moses body was taken to heaven by angel Michael and he also appeared with Elijah at the mountain to meet Jesus. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude 9&version=NIV Moses and Elijah might be the coming 2 Witnesses of Revelation 11 in the great tribulation which proofs that Moses has been resurrected. God did bury Moses in a secret place for some time and then He sent Michael. The idea that angel Michael disputed the devil because Michael wanted to bury Moses body in secret place is very absurd, how can Michael bury Moses in secret if the devil already found the place and resisted Michael ? Peter offered to make tents for Moses and Elijah because they were literally visiting Jesus. It was not a spiritual vision otherwise Peter was such a fool. I don't think so, I think it was ABRAHAM. Reasons "And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God." James 2:23 KJV 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted March 6, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 6, 2023 On 3/5/2023 at 4:40 AM, Michael37 said: We know from Scripture the archangel Michael disputed with the Devil over the body of Moses. We don't know from Scripture when this dispute took place. We don't know from Scripture where the dispute took place or whether the Devil knew the location of Moses' burial site. On 3/5/2023 at 4:40 AM, Michael37 said: Bodies have to be glorified before they are accepted into heaven so that's a no to any Scripture-based argument that Michael was in the process of resurrecting Moses when the Devil tried to intervene. @Michael37, There is a lot in your paragraph above that need to be verified with scripture about their truthfulness... One of them is the statement made in the first three lines..your comments is about the body of a person after he has died...and in this matter at hand it must be about Moses...About the body of Moses...not about Moses but about the "body of Moses". It is that just after Moses died,..both Satan and Michael were standing above the dead body of Moses and argue about his body ...who is going to get the body of Moses... Is it that Michael succeeded in having control of Moses body..,.and where Moses went after his death or where Moses can be found after his death... And if Satan had managed to take Moses body what would he have done with it? And what Michael needed to get Moses body? Does Michael gets the body of anyone who dies? Do you have any scriptures? On 3/5/2023 at 4:40 AM, Michael37 said: The Lord rebuke the errant ones who embellish His Word for perverse sport. ??? What do you want to say? (YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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