Was Moses the first resurrection of man before Jesus ?

[farouk]

9 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Yes, but those under the LAW died BEFORE He did, hence Him being the FIRSTFRUITS of them that slept.  

Isn't GOING to the place of the DEAD ONE of the reasons the law of sin and death needed to be replaced?  Because it could only point out what sin was but could offer no forgiveness for it? 

@DeighAnn It is often said that the Resurrection is the fulfillment of the feast of firstfruits (1 Cor. 15.20).

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

hey would read it the way it was written.  The "natural body" refers to the physical body.  The "spiritual body" refers to the resurrection glorifed immortal body.  Of course no believer will "come back to the place of the dead".  What are y0u even talking about?  Who do you know says this?

Everyone who says we don't rise up to heaven in a glorified spiritual body when this natural body dies

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

This is very confused.  Before Christ's resurrection, ALL saved people went to Sheol/Hades.  Read Luke 16.  Jesus told us of 2 people who died and WENT to Hades.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

oint please?  You seem never to make a point in your posts.  Just make a lot of statements/claims/etc.  What is your point?

THEY COULDN'T BE DEAD, They couldn't be in HELL, They couldn't be in the place of the DEAD because 

GOD is their GOD and HE is the GOD OF THE LIVING

and not the DEAD.  SO THEY COULDN'T BE DEAD.  

I don't know how to make it any more CLEAR

than the words of GOD do THEMSELVES 


How can one improve upon GODS PERFECTION.  

[DeighAnn]

13 minutes ago, farouk said:

@DeighAnn It is often said that the Resurrection is the fulfillment of the feast of firstfruits (1 Cor. 15.20).

I have HEARD it said, I just haven't ever read where we are TOLD to use them that way, and I personally have never been led that way myself so I don't do it.  Maybe that comes with more study I don't know but TILL I READ IT, I don't believe it. I am not saying it isn't there NOW, just saying MY EYES have not been opened to them by the Holy Spirit yet.  But I am patient.  

 

You know who GOD gave to Jesus?  Those who had died under the law and gone to hell.  Those who SLEPT.  They were OF THE LUMP that is Holy and GOD wanted them to come home.  And with the RANSOM paid, there was NO REASON for them to be left in hell while Jesus went to heaven.  I realize I am whitewashing this and probably mixing up the words put I am just trying to make the point that those who CHOOSE DEATH go to hell, those who don't choose sadly go to hell but will be raised up to live for the Lords Day and hopefully get their names in the book of life 

and those who NEVER DIE go to heaven. They aren't WAITING, they are FOLLOWING.  We, who have been SAVED from DEATH and destruction, don't have anything to do with this world now, and we don't have anything to do with it at the death of our body.  


The only ones waiting to be 'resurrected' on the last day NOW are the DEAD.  


Those who came AFTER HEAR HIS VOICE and they follow Him and none of those will be lost.  

[R. Hartono]

14 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Your right. However the ones you mention were temporary. They died again. Enoch can't be considered a resurrection because he didn't die. The 2 Witnesses will only be defeated after their 42 month ministry ends and then they will only be dead for 3 days before they are resurrected. 

It looks like Moses die Twice.

[R. Hartono]

14 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I never said Moses didn't die. It's very clear he did. But his burial site is hidden from everyone. 

The question is this : Why God hide Moses body then He resurrected and raised Moses into heaven. Its such a waste of time. 

Moses was resurrected as God needs to send him with Elijah in the great tribulation

 

@DeighAnn

@farouk 

@Michael37

@Free grace

@Marathoner

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by R. Hartono

[FreeGrace]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

There are many accounts of people being raised from the dead, with several from the OT.  But acts 26:23 tells us that Jesus is the FIRST to rise from the dead.  So, that means all other rising from the dead do not include the glorified immoral bodies that Paul described in 1 Cor 15.  All those who were raised from the dead died again.  Even Lazarus.

If that isn't the biggest GRAND CANYON leap to a conclusion I have ever seen, I don't know what is.   IS THAT THE BEREAN WAY?  Maybe I just don't understand what studying the berean way means unless it is just another way of saying 'I conclude' or have come to a 'conclusion' based upon a FEW I think I know facts.

The Berean way is found in Acts 17:11.  They "searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul WAS TRUE."  So, all conclusions are based on what the Bible SAYS. 

If you disagree with what I posted above, can you prove that ANYONE before Christ's resurrection received an immoral glorified body?  And how would that square with Acts 26:23, which SAYS that Jesus was the FIRST to rise from the dead?  Do you know what that means?

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
How many BODIES do we see in just those 4 verses?  WHAT BODY, not that body, God give a body, to every seed a body

I am convinced that you do not understand 1 Cor 15.  Which is the basis of your confusion about resurrection.  

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Yet, somehow, I am wrong to believe we are raised in a body?

No.  Paul said as much.  But, do you understand what KIND of body believers will be raised up in?

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 Where are all the 'spirit's without bodies MENTIONED when it comes to being raised up?  especially since it couldn't be made clearer we ARE raised up it is in a body and it is in glory and that takes place when this body is sown and not some 'later date'.

The body believers will be raised up" in is the glorified immortal body that is just like the body Jesus was raised up in.  That's what Paul said.  So the red question above is immaterial.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 AGAIN HERE, HERE IS WHAT IS WRITTEN.  

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
AND AGAIN HERE

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
AND YET AGAIN HERE
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
AND HERE AGAIN

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

All of this is refers to the glorified immortal bodies that will be given to all believers "when He comes" at the Second Advent.  

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Who knows, maybe someday soon there will be a 'rewrite that leaves out the WORD BODY' here....but till then WHAT IS WRITTEN isn't what you are saying.

No need.  Paul was clear enough.  What I have been saying is EXACTLY what Paul already SAID in 1 Cor 15.  This demonstrates your confusion about 1 Cor 15.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AND TO BE SURE YOU ARE NOT CONFUSED BY WHAT IS RAISED UP
when the raising up is taking place, 
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And the "spiritual body" IS IS IS the resurrection body.   :)

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The natural body goes back to dust and the 'WITH WHAT BODY ARE THE DEAD RAISED' is raised up

God is omnipotent and will CHANGE every physical body into a glorified immortal body.  Even if a believer died by being blown to very tiny bits and all the molecules of that body were blown hundreds of miles apart.  So what?  God is omnipotent.  

So, in essence, believers will get their original body back, but GLORIFIED and immortal.  Again, not difficult to understand.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  How does one go from THAT to
1. we are not raised in a body THE FIRST TIME, we are separated from it
2. we are not raised in incorruption THE FIRST TIME but have to return 
3. we are not raised in glory THE FIRST TIME in the spiritual body because???
4. we are not raised in power again that all comes from the corruption of the earth when the DEAD are raised.

This section is rather confused.  When you write "goes from THAT" what are you referring to?

No one is raised "the first time".  We are BORN the first time.  Believers WILL be raised again, which is the resurrection.

#2 doesn't make sense.  Dead believers (their souls) return to earth with Jesus and will receive their glorified immortal body.

#3 is also confused.  Since you don't define "the first time" I have no idea what you are thinking.  We are born, and at the resurrection receive a glorified immortal body.

#4 doesn't make sense.  All believers WILL BE "raised in power", as you previously noted.  

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  WILL there be a 7 day waiting period for the 'dead body' to be 'cleansed' or does the spirit join with the dead body and then wait the 7 days for the cleansing to take place?

Why do you ask such questions?  There is no mention in the Bible of any "7 day waiting period".  It is these kinds of questions that demonstrates how confused you are.  The Bible doesn't say anything about bodies being "cleansed".  Where do you get your "information".

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 At what point do you see the DEAD BODY going FROM UNCLEAN AND NOT TO BE TOUCHED TO GLORIFIED AND LIVED IN?

There is no point.  You are bringing up stuff that isn't in the Bible.  You would do well to heed your own claims of "it is written".  You bring up lots of stuff that ISN'T written.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Anyway, if I didn't ask before,  where it is written
WE ARE raised up not ONCE but TWICE, and

No where is where.  Why do you think I or anyone else said believers are "raised up twice"?

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

WHAT BODY does the 'bodyless spirit' sow, for the spiritual body to be raised up from?  Or do THOSE VERSES just not work under any circumstances here?

No body "sows", which was your question.  You are confused.  I don't know what verses you are referring to, so I can't answer your question.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

From
A resurrection of BOTH
to 
2 separate resurrections of each one separately

Very confused here.  The "2 separate resurrections" refer to a resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved.  Apparently you have confused the "2 resurrections" for unsaved and saved into 2 resurrections of the saved.  I never said that.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I guess if I could make that kind of a leap this would be so much easier but alas...

No leaps needed.  But in your confusion you only think leaps are needed.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Our works FOLLOW US.  We REST from them.  We go before the JUDGMENT seat of Christ to RECEIVE the things done in this body.  Without a body, a heart and a mind, or even a soul to bestow them upon, WHERE DO THOSE THINGS GO?

OK, now you change directions.  The Judgment Seat of Christ occurs AFTER believers receive their resurrection body.  At the Second Advent.  I don't know what you mean by "where do those things go".  

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 Why would GOD set up such a chaotic plan when it is so simple to just follow what is written?

That's what I have been doing all along.  The plan isn't at all chaotic.  I am sorry it seems so to you.  Your questions certainly demonstrate lots of confusion.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 God made us in image with BODY and SOUL, so why take that away?   Since Christ was raised in a body wouldn't it seem more likely we would be also?

God doesn't take away anything.  Where do you get that?  At death, the body goes into the ground, and the soul goes to God.  And all believers WILL be raised in a resurrection body, which will be just like His.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  Seems so much confusion with what we are shown to be in heaven already such as BODIES OF ELDERS
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

I think you are unnecessarily confusing yourself with details that aren't important.  You don't need to worry about the bodies of elders.  The Bible doesn't mention bodies. It does mention elders.  Stick with "what is written", as you keep saying.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

BODIES OF ANGELS
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

BODIES OF PRIESTS AND KINGS
9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

BODIES OF EVERY CREATURE EVERYWHERE
13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

More confusion.  The Bible doesn't describe any of these "issues" of yours.  Again, stick with "what is written".

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AND YOU KNOW WHAT IS NEVER MENTIONED, NOT ONCE? 
BODYLESS AIR, waiting to return to earth to BECOME A PART OF THE DEAD to rise for a 2nd time
HOW do we know they are from EVERY NATION KINDRED TONGUE AND PEOPLE if they are all just AIR?

Who said people "are all just air" anyway?  Your questions continue to be confused.  The Bible never says that people "are all just air".  Why can't you just stick with "what is written"?

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

1Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.

2(It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)

3Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.

4When Jesus heard that, he said,
This sickness is not unto death,
but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
 THAT is the difference between the 'dead' rising FOR THE GLORY OF GOD and
Christ BEING RAISED UP OUT OF THE PLACE OF THE DEAD.

Lazarus was raised in his physical NON glorified and still mortal body.  Your last sentence makes no sense.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 WHAT IS WRITTEN will SHOW the errors every time and at every turn.

But you don't even take your own advice.  You've been bringing up many things that have NOT BEEN WRITTEN.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

   Why was Christ FIRST?  Because no one else ever went to the place of the dead WITHOUT their own sin.

Your answer is false.  Christ was FIRST because "it is written" in Acts 26:23.  And your answr isn't found in Scripture.  Stick with "what is written".

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 Because He willingly bore OURS. 
Because No one was raised from the place of the dead before He was
Because No one else ever brought so much light to the world
Because No one else ever raised anyone else

None of these 4 things is the reason Christ was first.  And #4 is patently false.  Jesus Himself raised people from the dead, as did His disciples and a few from the OT.  But all of that was NOT the glorified immortal resurrection that will occur at the Second Advent.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 I can think of more reasons why He would be FIRST but I can't think of any way He could be raised up before Enoch, or Elijah not having been born of the flesh and died until after them...

Enoch hasn't been resurrected into a glorified immortal body YET, nor Elijah.  They will when ALL believers are resurrected at the Second Advent.

1 Cor 15:23 -  But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Why isn't this verse enough of an answer?

[FreeGrace]

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

No, Jesus paid the debt on the cross.  For everyone.

Yes, but those under the LAW died BEFORE He did, hence Him being the FIRSTFRUITS of them that slept.

Doesn't matter who died before He did.  And being "firstfruits" refers to being the FIRST one to receive a glorified immortal body.  

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 Isn't GOING to the place of the DEAD ONE of the reasons the law of sin and death needed to be replaced?  Because it could only point out what sin was but could offer no forgiveness for it? 

No to the first question.  The second question is confused and unanswerable.

[FreeGrace]

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

FreeGrace said: 

"We know that "those who belong to Him", which means ALL believers of all time, will be resurrected "when He comes", a refernce to the Second Advent"

No WE don't.

Yes, we do.  Don't you believe in "what is written"?

1 Cor 15:23 -  But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Notice the colored words in my statement CAME directly from 1 Cor 15:23.  You see, I DO pay attention to "what is written".  And yet, you disagree with what I post, which is God's Word.  That is why you are so confused.  You aren't paying attention to "what is written".

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  This 1/2 of the WE believes we FOLLOW HIM and that happens every man in his own order

Huh?  I have no idea what you mean here.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

and 

when Christ returns it is the DEAD, not the living who rise.  It is the ALIVE and remaining who belong to HIM AT THAT TIME

To be clear, those "alive and remaining" have always belonged to Him since they put their trust in Him.  And so do all the DEAD.  iow, EVERY saved person belongs to Him.

Unless you can find where "it is written" something else.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

SO those who belong TO HIM are returning WITH HIM, because as Jesus died and rose, even so them and God will bring them back with Him when He returns at the 2nd Advent.  That is how we know the difference between the dead and the living.  The LIVING never die follow Him and return with Him

The phrase "those who belong to Him" refers to EVERY saved person in history, whether already DEAD or "alive and remaining".  Doesn't matter.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

while the DEAD don't know the way and so go to the place of the dead until He returns.  That is when the DEAD rise.  BOTH the just and the unjust DEAD.  Why BOTH and WHY at the return of Christ?

Your question is confused and confusing.  The bodies of dead believers will be resurrected when Jesus comes back at the Second Advent.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  BECAUSE THEY NEVER CHOSE.  They died NEVER HAVING been given a chance.

I don't know what you are referring to here.  EVERYONE has a chance.  Rom 1:20 SAYS so.  iow, "it is written".  I invite you to read it for yourself.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  THEY are who will be taught for the 1000 years.  They are the DEAD who will do WORKS during the Lords Day to GET THEIR names in the book of life, IF INDEED they are just.....THOSE of the DEAD who are raised to eternal damnation WON'T get their names in the book of life but they will die the 2nd death of both body and soul.

I couldn't disagree more strongly.  NO ONE will "do works to get their names in the book of life".  That is heresy.  One gets their name in the book of life THROUGH faith in Christ.  John 5:24, 6:40, 47.

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

and AFTER ALL those dead are judged, both the just and the unjust DEAD,
THEN will hell death ande the sea give up the rest of the dead...

Read Rev 20:11-15.  

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

THAT is yet another 'rising up' of the DEAD.  The dead who rise when Christ returns BOTH JUST AND UNJUST and the dead that rise AFTER they are judged.  

There is just one for the saved and one for the unsaved.  Because "it is written".