Was the early church catholic?

[Solus Christus]

4 hours ago, Michael37 said:

@JimmyB The Crusades predated Protestantism by 3 centuries. 

The Crusades were a series of religious wars between Christians and Muslims that took place between 1096 and 1270¹. Here is a timeline of the Crusades:

• Apr 1081 - Aug 1118 Reign of Byzantine emperor Alexios I Komnenos¹.
• 1088 - 1099 Reign of Pope Urban II¹.
• 1095 - 1102 The First Crusade is formed to recapture Jerusalem for Christendom. It is successful in its primary aim¹.
• Mar 1095 Byzantine emperor Alexios I Komnenos appeals to the west for aid against the Seljuks¹.
• 27 Nov 1095 At the Council of Clermont, Pope Urban II calls for the First Crusade to form and retake Jerusalem for Christendom¹.
• Mar 1096 The people’s army led by Peter the Hermit departs for Constantinople during the First Crusade¹.
• 21 Oct 1096 The ‘People’s Crusade’ is wiped out near Nicaea by a Seljuk army¹.
• 1097 The First Crusaders arrive at Constantinople¹.
• 1097 The First Crusaders capture Nicaea¹.
• 1 Jul 1097 A Crusader army wins a great victory against a Muslim army at Dorylaion¹.
• Mar 1098 Baldwin of Boulogne takes control of Edessa and the County of Edessa is formed, one of four Crusader-created states in the Levant¹.
• 3 Jun 1098 The First Crusaders capture Antioch after an 8-month siege¹.
• 28 Jun 1098 The Crusaders defeat a large Muslim army sent to recapture Antioch¹.
• 7 Jun 1099 The Crusader army arrives at the walls of Jerusalem, the objective of the First Crusade¹.
• 17 Jun 1099 A small fleet of Genoese and English ships arrives at Jaffa bringing essential supplies for siege weapons to the First Crusaders at Jerusalem¹.
• 10 Jul 1099 Siege towers are built by the First Crusaders to better attack Jerusalem¹.
• 15 Jul 1099 Jerusalem is captured during the First Crusade¹.
• Sep 1099 The Crusader state, the Kingdom of Jerusalem is created¹.

Protestantism originated from the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century¹. The term Protestant comes from the Protestation at Speyer in 1529, where the nobility protested against enforcement of the Edict of Worms which subjected advocates of Lutheranism to forfeit of all their property¹. The earliest origin of Protestantism is controversial; with some Protestants today claiming origin back to people in the early church deemed heretical such as Jovinian and Vigilantius¹.

Here is a timeline of the Reformation history:

• 1517 Martin Luther posts his Ninety-Five Theses on the door of Wittenberg Castle Church².
• 1519 - 1522 Martin Luther debates Johann Eck at Leipzig².
• 1520 Martin Luther writes three treatises: To the Christian Nobility of the German Nation, On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church, and On the Freedom of a Christian².
• 1521 Martin Luther is excommunicated by Pope Leo X².
• 1521 - 1522 Martin Luther is hidden in Wartburg Castle².
• 1526 The first Lutheran hymnal is published².
• 1530 The Augsburg Confession is presented to Emperor Charles V².
• 1536 John Calvin publishes his Institutes of the Christian Religion².
• 1545 - 1563 The Council of Trent meets to reform the Catholic Church and respond to Protestantism².

[BingChat]

Actually there was The Holy Leagues who fought at The Battle of Lepanto (1571 A.D.) and won against The Ottomans, Martin Luther praised the outcome of the battle. The Knights of St. John, originally the Knights Hospitallers who were rivals of the Templars and a surviving crusading order defeated The Ottoman Turk Muslims at Malta and Rhodes on in 1565. There was plans for more crusades then, so @JimmyBpoint stands in that the Protestants did not join in the crusade like Leagues. In fact, The Reformation I argue had a hand in the decline of crusading, as people become more literate and read the Bible and adopted reformed theology, the errors of Papal Bulls (Luther having burned one) and crusading to save your soul in pennitential warfare like Muslim Jihad Akbar become apparent to people. One could argue the nailing the 95 Thesis on Castle Church Door in Wittenberg was the death nail to Cluny and Pope Gregory’s faulty crucinatius plans to save warriors. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Solus Christus

[Willa]

I have read about the 30 years from both a Catholic source in Catholic hospital and a Lutheran source, since I was then Lutheran, and then a fairly neutral source or two such as Wiki.  War is war and atrocities are done by all, even those claiming to be Christians by their churches but never having been born again by God!

[FJK]

3 hours ago, Willa said:

War is war and atrocities are done by all, even those claiming to be Christians by their churches but never having been born again by God!

Religion aside, any religion or no religion at all, War is the only universal constant in humanity.

[Anne2]

4 hours ago, Willa said:

I have read about the 30 years from both a Catholic source in Catholic hospital and a Lutheran source, since I was then Lutheran, and then a fairly neutral source or two such as Wiki.  War is war and atrocities are done by all, even those claiming to be Christians by their churches but never having been born again by God!

Yes, by all. When I read some of this stuff, what comes to mind is what God said to Israel. They were to be good to their slaves, for they of all people knew the heart of a slave, having treated the same  in Egypt. The atrocities protestants did Not do, as they did not exist yet, did some of their own, despite having known such themselves. I just cannot see why all this bashing has any benefit?

[JimmyB]

1 hour ago, FJK said:

Religion aside, any religion or no religion at all, War is the only universal constant in humanity.

What about love?  That has been around since day one, long before the first wars were fought.

[Solus Christus]

2 hours ago, FJK said:

Religion aside, any religion or no religion at all, War is the only universal constant in humanity.

War is necessary at times. World War II stopped The Nazis and the annihilation of the Jews in The Holocaust. 
 

The Lamb will wage war against the Antichrist and his acolytes. 
 

[Deadworm]

6 0f the 13 epistles attributed to Ignatius are forgeries and his 7 authentic epistles are later supplemented with inauthentic material. His 7 authentic epistles identify the true Church as "Catholic" and anchor its identity in the redemptive Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and in the oversight of a monarchical bishop, true to later Catholicism. Consider these quotes from Ignatius:

"...break one bread which is the medicine of immortality (Ephesians 20)"
"They [heretics] abstain from Eucharist... because they do not confess that is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ (Smyrnaeams 7:1)."
"Be careful to desire one Eucharist; for there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and one cup for union with His blood (Philadelphians 4:1)."
"I desire the Bread of God which is the flesh of Jesus Christ... and for drink I desire His blood (Romans 7:3)."

Ignatius's witness to Catholicism as the orignal apostolic faith is uniquely important because there is only one intervening bishop of Antioch between Ignatius and the apostle Peter. So, Catholics argue, Ignatius preserves the original apostolic understanding of Real Presence.

 

[Anne2]

On 8/2/2023 at 6:04 PM, Solus Christus said:

Actually there was The Holy Leagues who fought at The Battle of Lepanto (1571 A.D.) and won against The Ottomans, Martin Luther praised the outcome of the battle. The Knights of St. John, originally the Knights Hospitallers who were rivals of the Templars and a surviving crusading order defeated The Ottoman Turk Muslims at Malta and Rhodes on in 1565. There was plans for more crusades then, so @JimmyBpoint stands in that the Protestants did not join in the crusade like Leagues. In fact, The Reformation I argue had a hand in the decline of crusading, as people become more literate and read the Bible and adopted reformed theology, the errors of Papal Bulls (Luther having burned one) and crusading to save your soul in pennitential warfare like Muslim Jihad Akbar become apparent to people. One could argue the nailing the 95 Thesis on Castle Church Door in Wittenberg was the death nail to Cluny and Pope Gregory’s faulty crucinatius plans to save warriors. 

Many question the term crusade for conflict beyond the holy land. That was to defend the Christians (Catholics) from muslim attacks. Some of these Christians are still persecuted today because the Byzantine empire (Catholics) was eventually conquered by Muslims. 

[garee]

On 4/5/2023 at 8:44 PM, portlie said:

This has been bothering me for a while now, most records seem to state that the early church was catholic. Where can i find knowledge of the actual history of our church? 

 

The church was reformed and restored  removing the government of dying mankind when the veil was rent .There was no King of kings sitting in the holy of holies  God is not a Jewish man he is eternal God .

Satan could no longer deceive all the nations that God was a man as King of kings

.A great tribulation for the Jew that was trusting dying flesh. . .  great joy for the nations of the world  One like never before or ever again. 

 He will be loosed for a short while at the end of the age and again to deceive all the nation God is a Jewish man .  

The earliest member was Abel the martyr   His blood like the blood of all saints cries out hoping to be clothed with the eternal incorruptible all die not receiving   

[JimmyB]

2 hours ago, garee said:

The church was reformed and restored  removing the government of dying mankind when the veil was rent .There was no King of kings sitting in the holy of holies  God is not a Jewish man he is eternal God .

Satan could no longer deceive all the nations that God was a man as King of kings

.A great tribulation for the Jew that was trusting dying flesh. . .  great joy for the nations of the world  One like never before or ever again. 

 He will be loosed for a short while at the end of the age and again to deceive all the nation God is a Jewish man .  

The earliest member was Abel the martyr   His blood like the blood of all saints cries out hoping to be clothed with the eternal incorruptible all die not receiving   

Jesus was a Jewish man and Jesus is God. Claiming that "God is not a Jewish man he is eternal God" is wrong.