When will the Judgment Seat of Christ (BEMA) occur?

[WilliamL]

On 4/9/2023 at 10:50 PM, Keras said:

Jesus stated many times that it was impossible for humans to reside in heaven. John 3:13, +

John 3:13 No one has ascended up to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [who is in heaven].

[Last four words disputed.]

Nothing here says that it impossible for humans to reside in heaven, nothing at all.

The verb is "has ascended up" [active indicative], meaning the willful act of the individual. This does not speak at all to a catching up, which a passive event caused by God. Which both has occurred (Enoch) and will occur at the rapture/catching up of the Church.

[Cntrysner]

5 hours ago, chesed said:

Perhaps, but the Church won't be under God's wrath. That would be double jeopardy as Jesus Christ took God's wrath (which we deserved) upon Himself at Calvary. Or are you still living under His wrath? 

Well said and it amazes me that some look forward to a judgment seat to receive crowns or to be elevated above other believers not realizing the rewards they seek at judgment will have a dark side revealing their sin (good or bad) which will bring them under wrath.
Our inheritance in Christ is more than kings and priests for we in Christ are the sons and daughters of God in Christ and there is no higher reward.
 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Cntrysner

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Col 3.1 says we have been resurrected with Christ.  Past tense. You quoted the verse. Now you say we must be resurrected again later.

v.1 is about the believer's POSITION in Christ.  Ever heard of that?  Scholars call it "positional truth".  Christ's resurrection is a past tense action.  And believers are positionally IN Christ.  That's how to understand the verse.

If you think you have already been resurrected with Christ, do you have a resurrection body, just like His?  Immortal?

And I never said we "must be resurrected AGAIN".  We get only ONE resurrection.

3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Twice as must Holy Spirit if we have been double dipped then.

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

I don't know what you are talking about, even if "must" is a typo for "much".  Still doesn't make any sense.

[Cntrysner]

7 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The whole world will be under God's wrath.  Not just Israel.

We in Christ are not of this world.

Joh 15:18  If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 
Joh 15:19  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 

[ChristB4us]

On 4/6/2023 at 10:55 AM, FreeGrace said:

Those who believe in a pre-tribulational resurrection and rapture trip to heaven also believe that the Bema will occur in heaven, after the resurrection of "the Church".  However, this is what the Bible says about when it will occur.

The Bema is the evaluation of all believers, when Jesus Christ returns to earth at the Second Advent, which is just after the resurrection of all believers (1 Cor 15:23).

2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

1 Cor 4:5 - Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.  [Second Advent - Bema]

Matt 16:27 - For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.  [Second Advent - Bema]

Eph 6:8 - because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

Phil 3-

20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,  [Second Advent]

21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.  [Resurrection]

2 Tim 4:8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.  [Second Advent - Bema]

I believe the Bema Judgement will be done at the pre great tribulation rapture event as it is that day when every one will be judged by what they had built on that foundation.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Note the destruction of our bodies which is physical death for defiling the temple of God and not having repented by His grace & by His help before the Bridegroom had come?  The spirit is saved per verse 15 above & with the Lord, to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 9:1-17.

Jesus did warn His disciples & us to be ready as found abiding in Him or else.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

That is the warning Jesus gave to the church at Thyatira to repent or be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation to be judged with physical death.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. 25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

[Keras]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Nothing here says that it impossible for humans to reside in heaven, nothing at all.

The Bible never says anyone will go to live in heaven.  Even the 2 Witnesses do not do that; they will be raised when Jesus Returns, along with all the Great Trib martyrs. Revelation 20:4 To be with Him during the Millennium.

25 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

We in Christ are not of this world.

Spiritually; yes, physically; no. 

Just as the Christians of old did and many Christians still are today; we must stand strong in our faith through times of testing. Persecution will try us, there is no escape to heaven, we only stand before Jesus in the Bema Judgment. Matthew 25:31-34

This happens when Jesus Returns, as described in Revelation 19:11-21    NOT before!

Plainly paralleled in Matthew 25:31 and 1 Thess 4:16

Edited April 11, 2023 by Keras

[FreeGrace]

37 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

We in Christ are not of this world.

Joh 15:18  If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 
Joh 15:19  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 

Right, we are not OF this world, be we surely are IN this world, as long as we are physically alive.

Col 3:1-10 was written to warn Christians.  And v.6 specifically mentions God's wrath.

[WilliamL]

12 minutes ago, Keras said:

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Nothing here says that it impossible for humans to reside in heaven, nothing at all.

The Bible never says anyone will go to live in heaven.  Even the 2 Witnesses do not do that; they will be raised when Jesus Returns, along with all the Great Trib martyrs.

reside:

intransitive verb

1. To live in a place permanently or for an extended period.

This certainly fits Enoch, as well as the 24 elders of Revelation 4ff. The 2 witnesses will "ascend to heaven" for quite a while at least, all during the period of the 7 Bowls. There they will be with the "great multitude...the ones who come out of the great tribulation," who will have been in heaven during the time of the the 7th Seal and all 7 Trumpets. I would call that residing.

 

 

[FreeGrace]

18 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

I believe the Bema Judgement will be done at the pre great tribulation rapture event as it is that day when every one will be judged by what they had built on that foundation.

First, there is NO mention of a resurrection and trip to heaven in Scripture.  And the Bible clearly places the singular resurrection of all believers at the Second Advent.

1 Cor 15:23, 2 Thess 2:1, Rev 20:4-6.  The dots are easy to connect.

Phil 3-

20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 

21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

v.20 is about the Second Advent.  v.21 is about the resurrection of all believers.

The Bema is the evaluation of all believers, when Jesus Christ returns to earth at the Second Advent, which is just after the resurrection of all believers (1 Cor 15:23).

2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

1 Cor 4:5 - Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.  [Second Advent - Bema]

Matt 16:27 - For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.  [Second Advent - Bema]

Eph 6:8 - because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

Phil 3-

20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,  [Second Advent]

21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.  [Resurrection]

2 Tim 4:8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.  [Second Advent - Bema]

18 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The words "that day" refer to the Second Advent.  That is when the Bema will occur.  After all believers receive their resurrection body.

18 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

Note the destruction of our bodies which is physical death for defiling the temple of God and not having repented by His grace & by His help before the Bridegroom had come?

Heb 9:27 says it is appointed for men to die ONCE and then the judgment.  So all humans are destined to physically die.  

18 minutes ago, ChristB4us said:

  The spirit is saved per verse 15 above & with the Lord, to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 9:1-17.

Right.  The resurrection of all believers is after the great tribulation.

[Cntrysner]

59 minutes ago, Keras said:

1 hour ago, Cntrysner said:

We in Christ are not of this world.

Spiritually; yes, physically; no. 

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 
1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 
1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 
1Co 15:48  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 
1Co 15:49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.