Death and heaven

[EricH]

holy---I actually agree with SuperJew.....

2jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2jo 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

God, in Ezekiel also WARNS---the watchman----"HIs blood will be on your hands"......

the 2nd timothy verses are how we are to respond to non-beleivers who question the gospel/doctrine, while the John passage is CLEARLY ON THOSE WHO CLAIM CHRIST.

some people cant handle "tuff love"----which is scritpural for beleivers.

they are pastors or followers of a watered down christianity looking to fill the pews so they can venture to the Caribean.

its called "Word of Faith" ers......WOF'ers---see em on tv all the time.

warm fuzzies----and they wonder why poison gas spreads throughtout their own "house"....

These verses actually address having fellowship with false teachers. They do not give us permission to treat them badly or rudely. It simply wartns us not to offer them fellowship in our homes or to issue them a greeting we should reserve for those of the faith. We should disagree in a way that is clear, yet communicates God's grace and love

Gnostic describes your belief. If you don't like the "name calling" then change your belief.

All Duane was saying is that when you reply don't be so harsh. It is just a discussion, no need to get so personal. (read Proverbs 14:16-17)

Tell that to John when he confronted the Gnostics of his day. I make no apologies, when someone takes an ardent Gnostic stance they are not a brother in the Lord and will be treated in a debating manner.

SJ,

Rather than copying the perceived style of one of the Apostles as he wrote inspired scripture, why not obey the command of an Apostle as he instructed us on how to deal with those who we think are mistaken in their thinking:

And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 NASB

Love in Christ

Eric

These are misapplied scriptures and you are essentially saying, "Do as they say, not as they do." That simply does not work. The fact of the matter is, when you run across false prophets (Gnostics were the original ones, along with Judaizers) it doesn't say deal with them in a loving way. It says kick them out, piont them out, do everything you can to get rid of them.

How are they missapplied? The context of the passage in 2 Timothy is men who have gone astray and the general apostacy of the last days. IN that context we are told how to deal with them. We are to make our disagreements with their doctrin clear, but in a way that communicates God's love and grace for them, so that if possible they might be rescued.

When we look at what people (especially the Apostels or Jesus) did, we must not only lookat what they did, , but ask ourselves the questions, "Why did they do it? " and "Was it mean to be an example for all believers for all time to follow" Paul's statement is prettly clear. We certainly correct. But Paul also describes the spirit and purpose in which it is to be done. Our goal is always redemptive

[apothanein kerdos]

How is calling someone who teaches Gnostic teachings a Gnostic the wrong things to do? Furthermore, how is it wrong to continually point it out?

In essence, quote me where I was rude. I'm tired of political correctness easing it's way into Christianity under the guise of "brotherly love".

[EricH]

How is calling someone who teaches Gnostic teachings a Gnostic the wrong things to do? Furthermore, how is it wrong to continually point it out?

In essence, quote me where I was rude. I'm tired of political correctness easing it's way into Christianity under the guise of "brotherly love".

SJ,

I sense that you are always on the attack. Even your statement here regarding political correctness infers motives on my part that just are not there. It is not gracious to put words or motives in someone elses mouth.

I am encouraging you to state truth in such a way that people sense both the truth of the statement, and your love for them.

[Smalcald]

Is eternity better if it starts earlier?

[followerofjesus]

"Christian ideas about the afterlife include a judgement upon death and an assignment to either Heaven or Hell depending on one's merit leading to an indefinite period of existence in a discarnate state that is followed by a resurrection in the body at the time of the second coming of christ ,which is also to be the end of the world."

The encyclopedia of Ghosts and Spirits

[ruah brit]

ruah brit---

you have equated the body being made of the dust of the earth, with a living soul.

the body existed before God breathed into him.

when God breathed his SPIRIT in Adam---THEN---he became a living soul.

not before. the soul is separate from the body.

I posted the scriptures that say "the soul dies at death". There is no scripture that says God breathed His spirit into Adam. The scriptures say the breath of life which even a dog has. The way of the spirit covenant didn't come until Christ. Here are the scriptures again may be this time you will read them.

The soul of man is made up of the dust of the ground and the breath of life from God.

Ge 2

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When a person takes there last breath their souls are dead unless they have the hope of Christ's resurection.

Ps 89

48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?

Ps 78

50 he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;

Ps 116

8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.

To be dead is darkness. To be alive is light.

Ps 56

13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Denise

ruah brit, what if the word used was "spirit", and not "breath"?

Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Adam, was created perfectly--in BODY---and in SPIRIT.

here, is the hebrew word for "breath"....

N@shamah (nesh-aw-maw'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 5397

breath, spirit

breath (of God)

breath (of man)

every breathing thing

spirit (of man)

Before sin, the Spirit of Life---Gods spirit/breath---was put into adam, and his soul was alive.

his spirit/soul died(slept), the moment he at the fruit he wasnt supposed to.

this is why we must be born again, cause Adam lost the spirit/soul God had given him. Its the basis for Adamic sin, of which we are conceived in.

notice some of the verses you posted about soul----being dead, and THEN---brought back to life!!!!!

its cause their Spirit, was born ANEW----a persons soul does not die, as in vanished/gone, its asleep. the soul of an unsaved/wicked man, however remains asleep(in prison conscious), until it is brought back together with the body at the GWT.----

Ps 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

this verse is asking what man can give himself the ability to be resurrected from or be given a free pass from the grave, which in jewish thought is sheol----a prison.

if you noticed, abrahams bosom had this prison exemplified in the NT scritptures, and Jesus went an preached to these spirits/souls----they were consciously alive.

Man and man's spirit was created. God is Spirit and He was not created. If God's Spirit was in man from the beginning there would have been no need for Christ to come and show you how to acquire the Spirit of God.

Zec 12

1 The burden* of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:

Ro 8

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Joh 4

24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

So if the spirit of God as talked about in Ro 8:9 is not in you, what spirit would you have? The spirit of man?

1Co 2

11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God

Denise

Edited October 21, 2005 by ruah brit

[Pilgrim7]

Believers,

<Edited by Moderator> The Holy Spirit is the one who leads into all truth. He says if we have not love, which is the essence of Christ, we are none of His, no matter how correct our doctrine. No one here is teaching Gnosticism. What I see is people confused on what the truth of the matter is.

I think its time to allow the Holy Spirit do the leading. Why is there every wind of doctrine blowing today? We have had the Gospel for over 2000 years now. Is the Holy Spirit so inept that He can't lead people into the unity of the truth, or is it man who is not humble enough to listen and be led.

The Scripture is clear, God formed man out of the dust of the ground. He had shape, but no life. He was a temple formed by God, but yet devoid of life. Then Jesus bent over him and breathed life into him. He now had the breath of life and was a living soul. It was the breath of life which gave him life. The greek word for spirit means air or breath. The breath of God included physical life, mental acuity and spiritual life. The living Soul has a three fold nature, physical, mental and Spiritual. He was now a living temple of God, a dwelling place for the Spirit of God. In Adam as in Christ, the spiritual, or word of God, was to rule. When He sinned, the spiritual aspect of his nature died, and the mind and body took control and he ceased to be ruled by God. This is why Jesus is called the second Adam, He came to succeed where Adam failed and raise man back to the image of God. This is what salvation is all about, coming back under the rule of God through the Holy Spirit of God implanted in the soul temple. Salvation is the process of being recreated in the image of God, receiving the Spirit of God into the temple of God to make it Holy again.

No need for labels, or name calling, just the simple truth of God.

God bless and keep,

Dennis

[sisterinchrist]

I will just continue to believe as I do, to love God with all my body, all my soul, all my spirit and all my strength and to love one another.

God bless all

[ruah brit]

Ruah Brit, Adam originally had the Holy Spirit to sustain his life.

after his sin, blood was what sustained his life.

God told him, in the day you sin, you will surely die.

did he die, the day when he ate of the tree?

Romans 8 is a good read in regards to Gods Spirit, the Spirit of Christ and mans spirit.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

The Spirit of Life(holy spirit we get when we are born again) sets us free from the law of sin---which is death and eternal torment.

Adam, lost this "Spirit of Life", when he sinned.

Thats why God has the plan of Redemption in place, to buy us back from what we deserve.

Once again I have posted the scripture that tells the truth and you make no comment on the scripture. Not even to tell me why it doesn't mean what it says. You just ignor it and go on with the nonsence. By the way Adam did die in that day. Because a day to the Lord is a thousand years.

2Pe 3

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The soul of man is made up of the dust of the ground and the breath of life from God.

Ge 2

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When a person takes there last breath their souls are dead unless they have the hope of Christ's resurection.

Ps 89

48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?

Ps 78

50 he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;

Ps 116

8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.

To be dead is darkness. To be alive is light.

Ps 56

13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Man and man's spirit was created. God is Spirit and He was not created. If God's Spirit was in man from the beginning there would have been no need for Christ to come and show you how to acquire the Spirit of God.

Zec 12

1 The burden* of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:

Ro 8

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Joh 4

24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

So if the spirit of God as talked about in Ro 8:9 is not in you, what spirit would you have? The spirit of man?

1Co 2

11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God

Denise

Edited October 22, 2005 by ruah brit

[Guest lvnpeace]

I have a question, I believe that our souls stay with our bodies at death, But it has come to my attention that a lot of Christians believe that our souls go to heaven to GOD until the last day of judgement and then we are judge and sent to where ever we belong. I am very surprised by this beacause it makes no sense that we could live in heaven without bodies for so long, just to come and retrieve them later on? I do know that in 2kings Elisha asked Elijah to inherit a double portion of his spirit, which is what goes to heaven when we die. I do not believe that this is our soul! What do other christians think?

I believe we are made of body, soul, and spirit.

Our body goes in the grave. The soul rests or sleeps. And the spirit, which is the breath of life, given by God, goes back to the Lord.

When Jesus returns at His second coming, our body, soul, and spirit will be reunited and transformed in the twinkling of an eye. We shall then receive the gift of immortality. It is our reward. We are not immortal right now, only God is. Scripture tells us that the wages of sin are death.

If you believe that the soul lives forever and goes to heaven immediately upon death, you have fallen for Satan's lie in his first sermon in the Garden. He told Eve, "You shall not surely die." Isn't better to believe God's word? So many people so easily accept Satan's word over God's.

In Christ,

CarolineS

Caroline, this is exactly as I believe, we must be Sisters! Thank you! Angie