Death and heaven

October 23, 2005

I have a question, I believe that our souls stay with our bodies at death, But it has come to my attention that a lot of Christians believe that our souls go to heaven to GOD until the last day of judgement and then we are judge and sent to where ever we belong. I am very surprised by this beacause it makes no sense that we could live in heaven without bodies for so long, just to come and retrieve them later on? I do know that in 2kings Elisha asked Elijah to inherit a double portion of his spirit, which is what goes to heaven when we die. I do not believe that this is our soul! What do other christians think?

Hey L.P.

We are created in Gods image, so since God is a Spirit, then we are a spirit. We ARE a spirit, we have a soul, and we inhabit a body. Your body is not created, it is born of parents. Your spirit is created, and it has a soul. Your brain is the computer that holds the soul, because on a physical basis, your brain is just tissue, and your soul is your intellect, and your emotions. The spirits internal organs are the fruits of the Spirit.

Imagine a coat. Your body is like a coat. When you put on your coat, it gets filled out, and it conforms to your body, and it moves to how your body moves. Take off that coat, and it will lie lifeless in the corner. When your body dies, it will lay lifeless, because you as a spirit has left it. Remember the richman and Lazarus? The rich man knew he was in hell, and he knew Lazarus. He had never met Abraham before, but he knew that it was Abraham with Lazarus. Why? Because his spiritual intellect (his soul) was still with him, and it was so sharp that it knew a man that it had never seen before, and it remembered a man that it already knew. In Thessalonians it says that we will meet Jesus in the air, and we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. We will have glorified bodies just like Jesus, and our souls will be so sharp, and we will understand many things. God bless. Duane.

Duane I appreciate your opinion, but I do have to say that the parable about the rich man and lazarus is just that a parable, and the Bible aslo many many times refers to us meeting with Jesus in the end during the resurection. Jesus said he would come back and get us. Amen Thank you your sister in christ Angie

October 23, 2005

Hey Angie.

Luke 16:1 Jesus said to His disciples, there was a certain richman.

Anytime Jesus uses the word certain, and uses names, it isn't a parable.

God bless. Duane

October 23, 2005

Hey Angie.

Luke 16:1 Jesus said to His disciples, there was a certain richman.

Anytime Jesus uses the word certain, and uses names, it isn't a parable.

God bless. Duane

Who told you that? I need to know how you came up with such an answer. I have never heard of such a thing, but a parable is to teach, which he is saying if you do not listen, then you will not listen even if I send someone to you! Hint, hint Jesus, he was not telling his disciples a story! Duane, I have been looking over the past replies, and it seems that there has been a lot of controversy surrounding you. This does not neccesarly mean that you have caused it, but I feel that I need to let you know that you do seem to be on the wrong course. I am not so happy with the way some have rebuked you, but I do feel that you need to stop and take a look at what you are saying! it is very important that we are correct in our understanding before we try to influence someone into believing what we believe to be correct, because you will be held accountable for your actions before the Lord. I am telling you this because I do not know your heart. You may just be confused, or you may truly be tring to influence people to confuse them. I do not know, so please check yourself and your teaching, and ask yourself am I truly oneminded with GOD? This is the most important question to ask yourself! Your sister in Christ Angie

October 23, 2005

Hey Angie.

Luke 16:1 Jesus said to His disciples, there was a certain richman.

Anytime Jesus uses the word certain, and uses names, it isn't a parable.

God bless. Duane
Who told you that? I need to know how you came up with such an answer. I have never heard of such a thing, but a parable is to teach, which he is saying if you do not listen, then you will not listen even if I send someone to you! Hint, hint Jesus, he was not telling his disciples a story! Duane, I have been looking over the past replies, and it seems that there has been a lot of controversy surrounding you. This does not neccesarly mean that you have caused it, but I feel that I need to let you know that you do seem to be on the wrong course. I am not so happy with the way some have rebuked you, but I do feel that you need to stop and take a look at what you are saying! it is very important that we are correct in our understanding before we try to influence someone into believing what we believe to be correct, because you will be held accountable for your actions before the Lord. I am telling you this because I do not know your heart. You may just be confused, or you may truly be tring to influence people to confuse them. I do not know, so please check yourself and your teaching, and ask yourself am I truly oneminded with GOD? This is the most important question to ask yourself! Your sister in Christ Angie

Angie in a previous post you told me that the rich man and Lazurus was a parable. It was not a parable. In the New-Testament, a parable is a short ficticious narrative designed to illuminate, a spiritual truth. In Luke 16:19 it says that there was a certain richman. In verse 20 it says there was a certain utterly destitue man named Lazurus.

Anytime is says that there was a certain anything, and actual names are used it is not a parable, but is a truth. God bless you. Duane

October 23, 2005

Hey Angie.

Luke 16:1 Jesus said to His disciples, there was a certain richman.

Anytime Jesus uses the word certain, and uses names, it isn't a parable.

God bless. Duane
Who told you that? I need to know how you came up with such an answer. I have never heard of such a thing, but a parable is to teach, which he is saying if you do not listen, then you will not listen even if I send someone to you! Hint, hint Jesus, he was not telling his disciples a story! Duane, I have been looking over the past replies, and it seems that there has been a lot of controversy surrounding you. This does not neccesarly mean that you have caused it, but I feel that I need to let you know that you do seem to be on the wrong course. I am not so happy with the way some have rebuked you, but I do feel that you need to stop and take a look at what you are saying! it is very important that we are correct in our understanding before we try to influence someone into believing what we believe to be correct, because you will be held accountable for your actions before the Lord. I am telling you this because I do not know your heart. You may just be confused, or you may truly be tring to influence people to confuse them. I do not know, so please check yourself and your teaching, and ask yourself am I truly oneminded with GOD? This is the most important question to ask yourself! Your sister in Christ Angie

Angie in a previous post you told me that the rich man and Lazurus was a parable. It was not a parable. In the New-Testament, a parable is a short ficticious narrative designed to illuminate, a spiritual truth. In Luke 16:19 it says that there was a certain richman. In verse 20 it says there was a certain utterly destitue man named Lazurus.

Anytime is says that there was a certain anything, and actual names are used it is not a parable, but is a truth. God bless you. Duane

Duane, you still have not told me where, or whom you have learned this from. I am curious and would like to know, because I read this passage as a parable. may GOD bless you and keep you!

ruah brit · October 23, 2005

Mr 4

30 Then He said, "To what shall we liken the kingdom of God? Or with what parable shall we picture it?

Parables are picturesque stories that tell you about things to come. However they are not fictitious. Christ was God and knew all things. God has seen it all and heard it all. Every story that Christ told is spiritually true, with nothing made up in them. You can't make up a lie to teach the truth otherwise you are still judged as a liar. Christ is not and never was a sinner.

Joh 6

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

Ro 3

7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

Denise

Edited October 23, 2005 by ruah brit

Pilgrim7 · October 23, 2005

Duane and all,

When there is a dispute in meaning, it is wise to go to the original Greek under the lead of the Holy Spirit to derive the intent of the writer. The word translated 'certain' is the indefinite pronoun meaning a, or any. It in no way means 'certain', but in fact means just the opposite. If this is your only evidence it only testifies against your case. No condemnation here, any one can be wrong. Controverted points need deeper investigation.

Strongs number and definintion:

(5100)

Edited October 23, 2005 by Pilgrim7

apothanein kerdos · October 24, 2005

If we are only to be reborn in spirit, then why does Paul tell us to renew our minds (which is flesh)?

apothanein kerdos · October 25, 2005

Again, because you didn't answer the question, if we are to only be born in spirit, why are we told to renew our minds (and no, the Greek word and context dictates the intellectual aspect of humanity).

felix · October 27, 2005

If we are only to be reborn in spirit, then why does Paul tell us to renew our minds (which is flesh)?

We are body, soul, and spirit. When God created the animals He did not breathe into them. However, God breathed into man. This gave man his spirit. For instance, Jesus had breathed on his disciples and they received the Holy Spirit. The bible says the Word of God is God-breathed; Jesus had said,"The words I speak to you are spirit and are life." If we look at the Hebrew words for the words "living-soul" regarding our creation in Genesis, we will find that it's meaning is different from that of the animals.

The soul is our mind, emotion, and will. Animals have this too. Humans have this. However, you never see a group of monkeys worshipping a statue. But you will see Humans worshipping things: money, idols, people, etc. This is because humans have a spirit. This is how we are able to contact and fellowship with God. Animals do not have this.

To be born again means we must be born again of our spirit. Consider when we were born again... our body was the same...and so was our soul. We still had the same body and we still had the same thoughts, emotions and desires. The mind is the forefront of our soul. The mind is not the flesh.

Consider romans 8:6

"The mind set on the flesh is death but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (AS)

To renew our minds we must set it on our born again spirit. This changes our minds to become like Christ. God is the process of transforming us into Sons of God. Romans 8:14 "Those who are led by the Spirit of God are Sons of God." When Jesus come back our bodies will be changed. And at that day we will be fully like God, our body, soul, and spirit will be a reflection of God. At this time God is in our spirit. Our spirit is NEW. But now we are in the process of changing our minds, renewing our minds. We do this by being led by the Spirit of God. This will then transform our soul. Our mind, emotion and will shall conform to God's.

2 Timothy 1:7

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

A spirit of power refers to our will.

A spirit of love refers to our emotions.

A spirit of a sound mind refers to our mind.

The spirit must move out into all the parts of our soul: mind, emotion and will. This is the renewing of the mind. We can do this through our born again spirit.