Why even care if another is Calvinistic, Arminian or Whatever?

[Vine Abider]

11 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

We can disagree on many things and still be in the faith. But all doctrines are not healthy to just ingnore. Like there are Christians who say we must worship on Saturday which is the 7 day sabbath. I can accept there worshiping on Saturday and that’s fine. But if they promote it for all others then I cannot accept that. And there are many doctrine that can stubble other believers. Th Bible also says to agree with one another. How can we do this? When there is so much disagreement about doctrine ?

No, I don't think teachings should be ignored, but when they're of the "non-essential" variety, the overarching priority is the oneness of the Spirit.  At the end of the day, can we just get together to share Christ and enjoy genuine fellowship in love?

[Neighbor]

5 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

At the end of the day, can we just get together to share Christ and enjoy genuine fellowship in love?

Well, ... what's on the menu again?  Any Hawaiian rolls? Cinnamon butter too? Okay, count me in.

[WilliamL]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:40 PM, Marathoner said:

I have found great value in Calvin's commentaries as you might recall ...

I should look into Spurgeon sometime soon.

Sure, in all your free time!

Whereas I avoid books full of commentaries, unless I am researching a specific topic. There are just so many of these books, and life is short. I'd rather research the scriptures in the original languages, which is more than I can handle already.

[WilliamL]

On 5/20/2023 at 1:09 PM, Alive said:

On 5/20/2023 at 12:54 PM, Vine Abider said:

I am pleased to say we are learning (through much trial and error) that we are never truly one in various teachings and practices - our oneness is only in Christ and the one Spirit we share.

This right here! I have said this very thing to folks with a different doctrinal view and was told there could be no unity.

shameful it is…thanks for this brother.

The key words here are "the one Spirit we share."

Sometimes this is true; but other times not. That is where mature spiritual discernment must come in. There are plenty of false brethren out there who claim/feign having the Spirit, who "are spots in your love feasts... sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit." Jude 12, 19

This is why local churches need mature elders with the experience to not be easily deceived. And this is why I avoid pastor-dominated churches, where one man claims authority to rule in doctrine without being open to question.

[steve morrow]

IN  LOVE  

 

1 JOHN 3:10  in this the children of  GOD  manifest and the children of the devil --whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of  GOD  neither he that loveth not his brother 

1 JOHN 2:9  he that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkness even until now  

*******JOHN 2:10  he that loveth his brother abideth in the light  and there is none occasion of stumbling in him*******

PSALM 119:130  the entrance of thy words  giveth light  it giveth understanding unto the simple 

JOHN 14:15  --IF--  you love  ME  keep  MY  commandments 

JOHN 15:9   --IF-- you keep  MY  commandments --you shall abide in  MY  love--  even as I have kept  MY  FATHERS  commandments  --and abide in  HIS  love--

 

JOHN 14:23  JESUS  answered and said unto  him  --IF--  a man  LOVE  ME -- he will keep  MY  words -- and  MY  FATHER  will love him   ---  and we will come unto him  ---  and make our abode with him  -- 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Neighbor]

On 5/20/2023 at 2:54 PM, Vine Abider said:

Pre-trib

·        Post-trib

·        Mid-trib

And my own latest favorite to consider,  the pre wrath tribulation rapture. But Rosenthal has already made a book on Van Kampen's "insight".  So no special personal profit opportunity in it for me. Might see David Reagan's writing on the subject at  https://christinprophecy.org/articles/the-pre-wrath-rapture/

Why take a look? Well it is another reason to think upon what are the core truths versus what are interesting possibilities. Core truths being essential for Christian fellowship to flourish while interesting possibilities being just that, interesting, but not essential at all.

[Starise]

There's a reason there are C and A churches. Each sticks to their own tenets usually to the T, so that if an A person wants to teach in a C church it's probably a no go and visa versa.

Seems to be the way humans operate. Once a church wide view is adopted, it would be weakness to allow any other, and I have frankly been in C churches populated by A leaning persons who didn't buy all of it but stayed in the church regardless. They just kept it to themselves or maybe in a small group it comes out. I have never known the opposite to be true and I have been in both and gotten to know the members.

Some here have mentioned how they view their role as watching out for what other suseptible people read. Like hawks? To make sure the wrong things don't get read.

While I think some of that can go too far, even though the motive is good, I often feel that way when C .vs A subject matter comes up. I get into this protective mode where I wouldn't want those not studied in this to come away with the wrong ideas about God, His love, and who He is.

I will admit some of that IS control, It's me wanting to lean the discussion, and maybe that isn't supposed to be my function, but I do feel the hairs on the back of my neck going up to some of this. For some who come here C .vs A is a central main motivating dare I say, primary aim of their faith, to tell everyone about their view of selection accoring to the bible of course....and yes, that rubs me wrong.

In reality C & A are lowest denominator types of INTRODUCTIONS into the subjects. They each present a narrow view often with a great need to further biblical expansion to get at the "meat and taters" of the thing.

I think we can fall in line with expectations here. People who are products of each church will come away with those views most of the time, especially if they were in the church since birth. I see the same things with Pre/Post trib.

So yeah, that's my only concern, that someone is going to think God never selected them so they might as well go live the life of a  pagan. That has NEVER been the entry point of the gospel message.

 

[com7fy8]

On 5/22/2023 at 1:46 AM, Wayne222 said:

Th Bible also says to agree with one another. How can we do this? When there is so much disagreement about doctrine ?

Well, Satan has things rigged to make it look like we can not agree. And one trick is to have a bunch of disagreeing people who never work things out. So, I would say, do not let that fool you. 

You can pray and trust God and find out how this works out. Of course, ones can claim, "Oh, a lot of disagreeing people have prayed for God to guide them, but they all still disagree." But God is able to communicate with you. 

One thing I think can help is, that we submit to God and discover where He guides our attention. He possibly will not guide us to get tangled with people who are endlessly talking about issues and not getting anywhere. 

And do what He says . . . not only trying to get straight about certain doctrinal questions, but > 

"speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head---Christ" > in Ephesians 4:15.

Give attention to what helps you to minister with others who are growing "in all things" of Jesus. Talk about what all these things are, trust God to share with us all His own things of His character and love.

And in case you do discuss something with someone and if you are saying what is correct . . . this is God's word you put out to people. It is guaranteed to do all that God desires, no matter how anyone makes it look as though you have shared it for nothing > 

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;

   It shall not return to Me void,

   But it shall accomplish what I please,

   And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"

                                                  (Isaiah 55:11)

And if you do what God's word says to do, this can help you not to waste yourself and your attention. For one example > 

"swift to hear", we have in James 1:20. Instead of trying to get others to hear you and agree with you, make sure you are hearing God. Then be an example of this, not trying to control others to accept what you offer. 

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

[Vine Abider]

21 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

Well, Satan has things rigged to make it look like we can not agree. And one trick is to have a bunch of disagreeing people who never work things out. So, I would say, do not let that fool you. 

Give attention to what helps you to minister with others who are growing "in all things" of Jesus. Talk about what all these things are, trust God to share with us all His own things of His character and love.

 

Liked what you had to say! Yes, the devil would like us to think we are divided.  However, we are not and the reality is we are one in Spirit! This is by far the major thing - NOT the various things we think divide us.  When we touch Christ together, this oneness abounds!

To clarify, we do need to recognize and stand on the essentials of the faith. But on things that are really nonessentials, we should hold those very loosely, recognizing that there may be damage done if we are too adamant about how right our teaching is.  (we can be "dead" right) Anything we hold, apart from Christ, can get us into trouble!

One of the most anointed books I ever read was about just that - holding the essentials tightly with one another, but other things loosely.  I know the Lord really wanted me to get that principle, so He made reading that book a supreme joy to read and digest! 

Regarding ministering to one another, if we minister Christ to one another, this will build up.  Preaching doctrines that are not essentials of the faith will tend to not build one another up. But for instance, if we relate something simple the Lord has shown us about walking with Him, that will edify each other.  And our inner Anointing will let us know if we are ministering the life of Christ to one another or just dead doctrine.  (If we are in fleshly arguments, the life and peace of the Spirit will quickly drain out of us.)

[com7fy8]

On 5/26/2023 at 1:02 PM, Vine Abider said:

the life and peace of the Spirit

"For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." (Romans 8:6)

If we pray the way God's word means for us to pray > 

"the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

So, if I care about people, my first concern is if they are obeying God in His peace so their hearts and their minds are functioning in this peace. God's peace is almighty to guard a person's mind against any and all nasty and negative stuff. This is God's own peace which He shares with us, while we are with Him in our minds and our hearts.

Therefore, this is not only a doctrinal thing, but this is in the character of our minds so we have His almighty safety and stability mentally and in our hearts. 

So, what ones say about Calvinism or Arminianism is not the first concern I have about a person.