How can a Christian NOT believe in the Holy Spirit?

[debrakay]

On 6/7/2023 at 5:24 AM, Jayne said:

It's 7:12 AM here and I've been trying to Google this research with no luck.  I find many articles ABOUT this, but no articles with hard and fast data.

Jayne, the link was in my OP.  Did you read it?  Here is the link to their research which looks like any where from 2000 to 5000 people were used for the data.  https://www.arizonachristian.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CRC_AWVI2021_Release06_Digital_01_20210831.pdf

I'm with you that the research is important but even a small sample like this is scary to me.

[JimmyB]

On 6/7/2023 at 9:25 AM, ChristB4us said:

But it should be discerned that which was before Pentecost, is of the world since God would not mimic that which is of Satan's.

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

There is a pagan supernatural tongue that is gibberish nonsense that was in the world before Pentecost had come with the real God's gift of tongues of another man's lips to speak unto the people. 

Now some members doubt Isaiah 8:19 is really testifying to that, but there are historical accounts of this existing in Roman idolatry.

The History of Tongues: Pagan Practices

Since we are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil with His help, then we need to know God would not mimic the works of the devil that has been in the world before Pentecost, otherwise how can sinners & the church know that converted sinners have departed from those spirits and that kind of tongue?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

I am not sure what you're trying to say.  If you are saying that the gift of "speaking in tongues" is not from God, but from Satan, you are clearly mistaken.  Speaking in an unknown tongue, i.e., not a known language, is not Biblical, you are simply wrong.  I and many others speak in the language that God gave us when we asked for it.  When I pray in tongues, it is actually the Holy Spirit within me that is creating the prayer. 

1 Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unproductive." 

If you lack the faith to believe that God gives whatever gifts He chooses to His children (or that He is incapable of creating the gift of tongues), then there is nothing to discuss.

[ChristB4us]

On 6/10/2023 at 12:56 PM, JimmyB said:

I am not sure what you're trying to say.  If you are saying that the gift of "speaking in tongues" is not from God, but from Satan, you are clearly mistaken.  Speaking in an unknown tongue, i.e., not a known language, is not Biblical, you are simply wrong.  I and many others speak in the language that God gave us when we asked for it.  When I pray in tongues, it is actually the Holy Spirit within me that is creating the prayer. 

1 Corinthians 14:14, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unproductive." 

If you lack the faith to believe that God gives whatever gifts He chooses to His children (or that He is incapable of creating the gift of tongues), then there is nothing to discuss.

God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people and so it is not going to be gibberish nonsense for why that kind of tongues can be found in the occult and Roman idolatry which was before Pentecost.

So God is not going to change His gift of tongues to a different format by sounding like that same kind of tongues as found before Pentecost.

It is because you assume that it comes without interpretation is why you believe it is for private use but it is not His gift of tongues.

When this tongue comes by seeking the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as promoted at the Azusa Street Revival, is why that is considered spiritual adultery by Jesus Christ.

When you believe in Jesus Christ that means you have faith; and that faith is a fruit of the Spirit which means you have that Spirit of promise by having that faith in Jesus Christ.  So when believers are in that environment that hypes the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, they are not going after Christ Jesus but to a different spirit and thus a different fountain for why believers were getting drunk in the spirit also at that Azusa Street Revival in losing self control in receiving such a filling & not just for tongues.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith...

The fact that you believe was proof that the Holy Spirit is in you after hearing the gospel and so such hype for seeking a baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues was them taking your eyes off of Christ to looking to receive Him by a sign instead.

That is committing spiritual adultery for why that tongue is just gibberish nonsense and not coming with interpretation at all.  That is the epitome of confusion for which God is not the author of.

[Believer112]

On 6/7/2023 at 12:37 AM, debrakay said:

I read this article from 2021 a few days ago and it will not leave my mind. 

Study: Majority of Self-Identified Christians Don’t Believe the Holy Spirit Is Real (thegospelcoalition.org)

I cannot understand how over 50% of Christians say they do not believe the Holy Spirit is real.  What part of the Bible are they not reading? Where is their Trinity, Father, Son, Spirit?  How can they deny a part of God when it is clearly spelled out in scripture after scripture from Old Testament through New Testament?  How can they ever discern and know the will of God?  Are these who deny the Holy Spirit truly Christian?  I am truly worried about the souls of those who deny the Holy Spirit.

Jesus told Nicodemus;

“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”' John 3:5-8 

I let my kids down. The game is tied and I've allowed this mess for them. Look at today's society is it Godly? I can understand why you'd question God. We have to be loud against the devil's lies to win this game. Of course, we've allowed ourselves to be subdued by the Government. All I can do is force my politicians for the truth in politics. We need Christian organizations demanding truth and using the law but being in the lukewarm church age these organizations would rather attack their neighbors than face the beast's system itself. I guess tax status is important to a lot of religious organizations. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Believer112

[Strict Machine]

On 6/7/2023 at 7:49 AM, ChristB4us said:

And

One should consider apostate movements of the "spirit" like holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, Toronto's Blessings, Pensacola Outpouring, & even Ernest Angley's Healing Crusade for when he announced the Holy Spirit is falling on already saved believer for a miracle that by touching their foreheads and saying "Whooooo!  they fall backwards to get that supposed miracle.  With all that confusion and signs and lying wonders, is it any puzzle why some Christians do not believe in the Holy Spirit when that was not the Holy Spirit at all? 

And you have to wonder about that report about the % of those that do believe, how much of that % is because of those apostate movements of the spirit?

At Azua Street Revival when they had placed the emphasis on the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, they had the same kinds of phenomenon like being drunk in the spirit happening there too, and yet modern tongues for private users would condemn holy laughter movement or being drunk in the spirit as not of God.

Thus brings the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues for sinners to seek after has to be discerned & judged as well.

What did Jesus say?

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

If Jesus told Nicodemus how he can know one is born again of the Spirit, would He not say by them speaking in tongues?  But no.  He said that after His ascension vs 13 which is after His crucifixion vs 14 for whenever anyone believes in Jesus Christ, shall have eternal life vs 15 hence born again of the Spirit.  John 3:6-15

Then Jesus said this that we would not be receiving the Holy Spirit the same way the world receives spirits by seeing it happen for why we are not to seek the receiving of the Holy Spirit by a sign when tongues are to serve as a sign towards unbelievers.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

We shall know Him by Him dwelling in us.  So the survey may be askew if the people that did not believe, were saying so in relation to those apostate movements of the spirit for why they do not believe the Holy Spirit is real since God is not the author of confusion as in all churches of the saints.  Is it any wonder why that tongue for private use is gibberish nonsense & thus seen as confusion?

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

The way that article is worded makes me wonder how that survey was presented and to what mindset the people that had answered.

i really liked this, because it points out some of the causes of confusion about the holy spirit and the fake "signs and wonders" that the modern church loves.  after spending a few months researching the origin of the trinity i'm not surprised that probably most people who read the bible and compare it with what the modern church teaches about the holy spirit are very confused or don't believe  it.  what the bible says (and doesn't say) about the holy spirit is completely opposite what the popular teaching of today is.  the Airport church and the others like it make it look like having the holy spirit is like being possessed by demons, and lol, the catholics consider those who can "speak other languages" as a sign of demon possession. 

[Daniel Marsh]

from reading the study summary, many of them were in cults and world religions and occultists.   Karma is the give away.  The study is poorly done. 

[Daniel Marsh]

"The survey’s most widely known facts about Christianity involve Easter and the Trinity. Eight-in-ten Americans (81%) know that Easter commemorates Jesus’ resurrection, and not his crucifixion, ascension to heaven, or last supper. A similar share (79%) know that the doctrine of the Trinity holds that there is one God in three persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). Just 3% of those surveyed choose one of the wrong answers to the question about the Trinity, while nearly one-in-five (17%) say they are unsure what the Trinity is."

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/07/23/which-religious-groups-know-what-about-religion/

[farouk]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:02 AM, Strict Machine said:

i really liked this, because it points out some of the causes of confusion about the holy spirit and the fake "signs and wonders" that the modern church loves.  after spending a few months researching the origin of the trinity i'm not surprised that probably most people who read the bible and compare it with what the modern church teaches about the holy spirit are very confused or don't believe  it.  what the bible says (and doesn't say) about the holy spirit is completely opposite what the popular teaching of today is.  the Airport church and the others like it make it look like having the holy spirit is like being possessed by demons, and lol, the catholics consider those who can "speak other languages" as a sign of demon possession. 

Hi @Strict Machine Father, Son and Holy Spirit are deeply present in Scripture (Matthew 28; John's Gospel, esp. ch.s 13- 17; Romans 8; John's First Epistle, etc.)

(Interesting screen name there..............  )

[Solus Christus]

Unitarians/ Deists aren’t Christians. They reject the third person of The Holy Trinity. I mean you have to ignore the second verse of the Bible to ignore the Holy Spirit!  
 

It is interesting how few have issue with The Father, half dispute The Son, but many dispute The Holy Spirit. I think they fear him. It’s easy to call God a Father, and believe in The Son paying for all your sins, but The Holy Spirit means God showing up in manifest way like in Acts Chapters 2 and 19. Nothing is scarier than God showing up to the meeting! God forbid! (Sarcasm)

[TheBlade]

On 6/7/2023 at 12:37 AM, debrakay said:

I read this article from 2021 a few days ago and it will not leave my mind. 

Study: Majority of Self-Identified Christians Don’t Believe the Holy Spirit Is Real (thegospelcoalition.org)

I cannot understand how over 50% of Christians say they do not believe the Holy Spirit is real.  What part of the Bible are they not reading? Where is their Trinity, Father, Son, Spirit?  How can they deny a part of God when it is clearly spelled out in scripture after scripture from Old Testament through New Testament?  How can they ever discern and know the will of God?  Are these who deny the Holy Spirit truly Christian?  I am truly worried about the souls of those who deny the Holy Spirit.

Jesus told Nicodemus;

“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”' John 3:5-8 

I was going to answer but I will not be apart of this when some are grieving the holy spirit. I will not touch Him.