The mark of the man/beast

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

John is just saying that all have sinned, not that we continue to sin, or that we still have sin. Some people back then, and even today do not even believe in sin, or say they have never sinned.  But yes, all men have sinned.

But when a person is born again from above, all their past sins are forgiven and we are cleansed from all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ.

If someone claims to be “in Christ” and is still living “in sin” they are a liar.  Because it is sin that separates us from God and from Christ.  

You cannot be “in sin” and also be “in Christ.”

Isaiah 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

 

Hebrews 7:26

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Just as an everyday observation no one is without sin. Name one person that is.

If a person has no sin or has not sinned, they are sinless. Only one person I know has walked the earth sinless. 

I am not going to equate a couple billion people claiming to be born again with the one and only sinless person to ever live. 

I had an experience with this. I knew this person, claimed to be perfected. No sin, always correct, was sent by God as the messenger to teach everyone. Shortly after making this claim, the person destroyed their relationship in full, then solicited minors and committed arson and went to prison. 

They claimed to be sinless and that blinded them to the point where nothing they did was wrong; in their own eyes.

And where would we find another person to confirm a sinless nature? Say I claim to be without sin, not sinning, who would back me up to prove this to others? 

My actions only, perhaps? Sin is many times quiet, hidden, practiced in the shadows, in private, where no one sees. 

If we are sinless we don't need Jesus and in fact equate ourselves with Jesus, making us into gods in our own being. 

1 John 1

And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6If we say we have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7Butb if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Only this takes away sin. It's not us, it's Jesus. It's not a literal cleansing, it's a ceremonial cleansing by vicarious sacrifice. Jesus blood covers, not abrogates, our sin nature. That change from the sin nature of original sin to the purity of sinlessness happens when Jesus returns and gathers us up, not before.

8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.

The above has to be taken into account along with 1 John 1:5-7. You cannot hang your hat on the former and ignore 1 John 1:8-10.

You can if you want, I guess. Your choice.

 

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Jesus blood covers, not abrogates, our sin nature. That change from the sin nature of original sin to the purity of sinlessness happens when Jesus returns and gathers us up, not before.

8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.

The above has to be taken into account along with 1 John 1:5-7. You cannot hang your hat on the former and ignore 1 John 1:8-10.

You can if you want, I guess. Your choice.

 

 

The blood of Jesus does not cover up our sins, it cleanses us from all sin.  If something is made clean, the filth no longer remains.

Also when we are born again of the Holy Spirit we are made a “new man” in Christ, and we put on the divine nature of Christ.  Is Christ a sinner? Of course not.

That old Adam sin nature is supposed to be “put to death”in us when we are crucified with Christ. Meaning when we are raised up a “new man”in Christ (spiritually speaking) we will no longer be serving sin; but rather righteousness, being “made righteous” in Him.

If Christ truly dwells in a man he will no longer sin, because Christ (the seed of promise) is in him.

The hard truth is this…

Those who sin are of the Devil-1 John 3:8

Those who are born again in Christ do not sin…1 John 3:9

 

[JoeCanada]

3 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

If Christ truly dwells in a man he will no longer sin, because Christ (the seed of promise) is in him.

The hard truth is this…

Those who sin are of the Devil-1 John 3:8

Those who are born again in Christ do not sin…1 John 3:9

If that be truly the case as 1 John 3:8 says, then we are ALL of the devil, for we ALL sin.

ALL Christians SIN..... I know of no Christians that do not SIN.

We are not made perfect and sinless the moment we come to Christ. 

Paul tells us:

Rom 7..... "but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin"

Lam 3:22-24.......“The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness"

Lamentations 3:22–24 reminds us that, in Christ, the Lord will be faithful to be there every morning with enough new mercy to get us through today's troubles, sin, and pain.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

10 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

If that be truly the case as 1 John 3:8 says, then we are ALL of the devil, for we ALL sin.

ALL Christians SIN..... I know of no Christians that do not SIN.

We are not made perfect and sinless the moment we come to Christ. 

Paul tells us:

Rom 7..... "but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin"

Lam 3:22-24.......“The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness"

Lamentations 3:22–24 reminds us that, in Christ, the Lord will be faithful to be there every morning with enough new mercy to get us through today's troubles, sin, and pain.

 

We were all at one time of the Devil because of sin, and because of the sin nature that worked in us by the spirit of this world.

But when we are born again from above we put on the righteous nature of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit.

It is a bad practice to judge Gods words as being untrue based on the actions of sinners.

If someone says we all still sin, then they speak for those who are still in the flesh, and are still of the Devil as written.

But they don’t speak for those who no longer live in sin and are truly made a new man in Christ by the Spirit.

Romans 7 is a commonly misunderstood chapter that is often mis used by sinners to explain why they still live sin.

But I would advise you to read Romans 6 and Roman’s 8 where Paul explains where we are “made free from sin” and how those who are of Gods Holy Spirit are “no longer in the flesh” and under the Roman’s 7 condition of being “under sin”.

 

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

We were all at one time of the Devil because of sin, and because of the sin nature that worked in us by the spirit of this world.

But when we are born again from above we put on the righteous nature of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit.

It is a bad practice to judge Gods words as being untrue based on the actions of sinners.

If someone says we all still sin, then they speak for those who are still in the flesh, and are still of the Devil as written.

But they don’t speak for those who no longer live in sin and are truly made a new man in Christ by the Spirit.

Romans 7 is a commonly misunderstood chapter that is often mis used by sinners to explain why they still live sin.

But I would advise you to read Romans 6 and Roman’s 8 where Paul explains where we are “made free from sin” and how those who are of Gods Holy Spirit are “no longer in the flesh” and under the Roman’s 7 condition of being “under sin”.

 

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a person who is born of God's Holy Spirit, has been forgiven of their sins thru the atonement of Christ.... can now live a completely sin free life?

[Stewardofthemystery]

36 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a person who is born of God's Holy Spirit, has been forgiven of their sins thru the atonement of Christ.... can now live a completely sin free life?

Absolutely!  Being made free from sin by the power of God in Jesus Christ is the True gospel message.

 

John 8:34-36

 

King James Version

 

 

³⁴ Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

³⁵ And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

³⁶ If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

Romans 6:18

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:22

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

[JoeCanada]

16 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

59 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a person who is born of God's Holy Spirit, has been forgiven of their sins thru the atonement of Christ.... can now live a completely sin free life?

Absolutely!  Being made free from sin by the power of God in Jesus Christ is the True gospel message.

Well, I don't know anything about you; how old you are or for how long you've been a Christian.

But from the moment that you were 'born again'..... I'm certain that you've committed sins since then ....NO?

Maybe read what Paul says in Rom 7:14>>>>>

[DeighAnn]

Sometimes things get lost in translation and what seems to be 'cut and dried' isn't so much as it first seems.  Going to the Greek order of words, giving my 2 cents

1 John 3:9 
Anyone having been born of God sin not practices, because seed of Him in him abides and not he is able to continue sinning because of God he has been born

 

John 8:36
If therefore the Son you shall set free, indeed free you will be.

 1659. eleutheroó ►
Strong's Concordance
eleutheroó: to make free, fig. to exempt (from liability)
Original Word: ἐλευθερόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eleutheroó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-yoo-ther-o'-o)
Definition: to make free, to exempt (from liability)
Usage: I free, set free, liberate.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1659 eleutheróō – properly, set free, release from bondage; (figuratively) to remove the restrictions of sin (darkness) because delivered by God into true spiritual liberty (growth). See 1658 (eleutheros).

Jn 8:36: "So if the Son makes you free (1659 /eleutheróō), you will be free (1658 /eleútheros) indeed" (NASU).

 1658. eleutheros ►
Strong's Concordance
eleutheros: free, i.e. not a slave or not under restraint
Original Word: ἐλεύθερος, έρα, ερον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: eleutheros
Phonetic Spelling: (el-yoo'-ther-os)
Definition: free, not a slave or not under restraint
Usage: free, delivered from obligation.
HELPS Word-studies
1658 eleútheros (an adjective) – properly, free (liberated), unbound (unshackled); (figuratively) free to realize one's destiny in Christ.



Being born from above makes us a new creature, yet we are still living in the flesh with the desires of the flesh and if it had no power then we would not need to crucify it every day...nor would we ever need to repent more than one time.  

If people believe that being born again makes them 'sinless' and they go on to sin, have we not placed a stumblingblock in front of them and their journey towards perfection?  We all start with milk and mature to meat.  If there were no growing along the way then all of us would know the exact same thing at the time of being born again and there would never be a reason to even discuss what is written past that, would there?   
 

[Stewardofthemystery]

44 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Maybe read what Paul says in Rom 7:14>>>>>

I just posted a thread about the confusion people have in understanding Romans 7.  
Here it is……

I have come across a grave error in my internet travels, and that error is in thinking that the law of God is a curse, and is sin.
 

The law of God is also the words of God; and so I would ask, is God's words also sin and death? Of course not! And for one to equate God's words of Life as sin and death is nothing short of blasphemy.

It would be the same as equating the works of the Holy Spirit to the works of the Devil. Many believe the Law of God is "the law of sin and death" that Paul spoke of in his letters. But Paul makes clear in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin.

So what is the law of sin and death? I compare the law of sin and death to be much like the law of gravity; we are all firstborn “under it”naturally by reason of Adams original sin. 

Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

As it is also written in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,” So as it is also written, “by nature”we were the children of wrath Ephesians 2:3 and as by the judgement of one for sin was unto condemnation Romans 5:16 as the wages of sin is death= being “under the law of sin and death.”

It is an absolute principle “in nature,”much like the law of gravity.

We know this condemnation of sin was already in the world before the Law of Moses because sin and death already reigned in the world. 

Romans 5:13 Notice we are told death reigned Romans 5:14“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.” 

That is an important clue in understanding what it means to be “under the law of sin and death.”

When you are under the law of sin you are a “servant of sin,” like sin being the Devils desire “ruling over”you as it is written in Romans 5:21 “That as sin hath reigned unto death…”

People try to use Romans 7 as an excuse for ongoing sin, even saying Paul was still struggling with sin. But one needs to keep in mind what Paul said to his audience in Romans 6:19 

19 I speak after “the manner of men”because of the infirmity of your flesh:”

Paul was trying to relate to a “carnal”audience who was still “struggling with sin” because they were still in “the flesh"(as is the “mannerism”of mankind) like a natural brute beast.

What Paul was showing in Romans 7 was the struggle and “enmity between” the law of the flesh and the law of the Spirit, as these 2 spirits and 2 natures are contrary to one another.
 

Notice in Romans 7 we are shown 2 laws, one is “the law of sin and death,” and the other is the law of God. We already saw in Romans 7:7 that the law of God is not sin, now notice Paul confirms in verse 13 the law of God is not death either. 

Romans 7:12-25 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then “a law,”that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see “another law”in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to “the law of sin”which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with “the flesh” the law of sin.

In the above we see the 2 laws at work (flesh vs. Spirit) warring against one another. But are we to remain in this state of captivity and bondage being under the law of sin and death?

Scripture gives us the answer to this as well in Romans 8:1-4 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus “hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak “through the flesh,”God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

What we see in the above is walking after the flesh is serving sin and =being “under the law of sin and death.”

Thus when we are born again of the Spirit we are no longer walking in the lusts of the flesh. 

Notice what Paul says in Romans 8:9 “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
 

So it is the Spirit of Christ (the law of the Spirit of Life) that makes us free from the first nature and law that desires to walk in the flesh and serve sin.

Now some might say this does not mean we are set free from sin and death, just that we are set free from the law of God.
 

But that is not what is being said above by Paul. To what benefit would it serve to be only set free from a holy law, and not be made free from sin and death?

All that would amount to is a bunch of lawless sinners. Besides that, the Gentiles were never even under the Law of Moses to begin with, so how can you be set free from a law that you were never even under? Makes no sense. 

But the law that both Jews and Gentiles are firstborn “under,”is the “law of sin and death.”

Romans 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are “all under sin;”

So hopefully you will see in this that it is sin you truly need to be made free from, because a servant of sin abides not in the house forever.

Peace and God bless

[Stewardofthemystery]

21 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Being born from above makes us a new creature, yet we are still living in the flesh with the desires of the flesh and if it had no power then we would not need to crucify it every day...nor would we ever need to repent more than one time.  

If people believe that being born again makes them 'sinless' and they go on to sin, have we not placed a stumblingblock in front of them and their journey towards perfection?  We all start with milk and mature to meat.  If there were no growing along the way then all of us would know the exact same thing at the time of being born again and there would never be a reason to even discuss what is written past that, would there?   
 

When you are born again of the the Spirit you are “no longer in the flesh.”

Romans 8:9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

 

Now, I agree that putting to death the deeds of the flesh (sin) can be a process of dying daily to self and to sin.

 

But the willful continuance in sinful behavior will cause one to fall away from the faith unto perdition.

 

Hebrews 10:26

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,