If you are picked up as a wise virgin you will not be seated under the Altar

[DeighAnn]

On 7/4/2023 at 1:12 PM, choir loft said:

HOUSE OF JACOB is traditionally understood to be a reference to the nation of Israel as a whole.   While other religions have tried to tap into this nomenclature, its generally not accepted as such.  Rather it's a specific reference to the nation of Israel. Obfuscation abounds such as that quoted above, but the primary understanding is that the House of Jacob means Israel.

The problem is Israel has many meanings and I agree, House of Jacob is usually of the all the TRIBES both before and after the dividing of the nation into two making it different from House of Judah and House of Israel, I think we are saying the same thing...

Israel has the 12 sons who will form a nation

Israel the people who came out of Egypt so the addition of 2 tribes

Israel the Nation under the laws of God

Israel the divided Nation into House of Israel, House of Judah with different destinies.

Israel is also the church aka joint heirs, adopted sons

Israel as it becomes a 'company of nations, great nation, kings' throughout the world

Israel the scattered sheep - Christians


Israel, Gods people

On 7/4/2023 at 1:12 PM, choir loft said:

The term "lost" has different generic social scriptural and spiritual meanings depending upon whether one is a Jew (as in the Two House Doctrine) or whether one is a non-Jew (bound for eternal torment if not a church member).  

or the blindness comes off...

 

 

On 7/4/2023 at 1:12 PM, choir loft said:

Identification with the lost tribes has been attempted in the past by non-Jews who have sought to subvert Jewish tradition and establish their own importance over non-Jewish doctrines and disciplines.

It would be by the words of God and isn't to subvert Jewish tradition but to show how Gods promises are being fulfilled, by BOTH houses BOTH still in existence today.  Only reason I can see "Jewish" wanting to keep the Lost sheep from knowing who they are is because they are still 'blind', and the 'Church" stays 'blind' from allowing it's own 'traditions' to keep it so.  

 

 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18 KJV

which should REALLY make one take to heart...

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25 KJV

 

"But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen." Hosea 1:7 KJV

"And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them." Zechariah 10:6 KJV

"For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:" Hebrews 8:8 KJV

So all those 'persecuting' TRUE Jews and not those just 'calling' themselves Jews, are going to find themselves with some explaining to do...

I also agree with you on the 'lack of understanding' today.  I think there should be a test on the OLD TEST one has to pass to be able to even 'speak' on the New Testament...to harsh??? IDK, that is how I see it though.  

Do you see 'knowledge being poured out', as having any effect on the whole 'word preacher control thing'? 


 

[choir loft]

On 7/7/2023 at 6:37 AM, DeighAnn said:

The problem is Israel has many meanings and I agree, House of Jacob is usually of the all the TRIBES both before and after the dividing of the nation into two making it different from House of Judah and House of Israel, I think we are saying the same thing...

Israel has the 12 sons who will form a nation

Israel the people who came out of Egypt so the addition of 2 tribes

Israel the Nation under the laws of God

Israel the divided Nation into House of Israel, House of Judah with different destinies.

Israel is also the church aka joint heirs, adopted sons

Israel as it becomes a 'company of nations, great nation, kings' throughout the world

Israel the scattered sheep - Christians


Israel, Gods people

or the blindness comes off...

 

 

It would be by the words of God and isn't to subvert Jewish tradition but to show how Gods promises are being fulfilled, by BOTH houses BOTH still in existence today.  Only reason I can see "Jewish" wanting to keep the Lost sheep from knowing who they are is because they are still 'blind', and the 'Church" stays 'blind' from allowing it's own 'traditions' to keep it so.  

 

 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:18 KJV

which should REALLY make one take to heart...

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25 KJV

 

"But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen." Hosea 1:7 KJV

"And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them." Zechariah 10:6 KJV

"For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:" Hebrews 8:8 KJV

So all those 'persecuting' TRUE Jews and not those just 'calling' themselves Jews, are going to find themselves with some explaining to do...

I also agree with you on the 'lack of understanding' today.  I think there should be a test on the OLD TEST one has to pass to be able to even 'speak' on the New Testament...to harsh??? IDK, that is how I see it though.  

Do you see 'knowledge being poured out', as having any effect on the whole 'word preacher control thing'? 


 

I'm only going to touch on a few points here:

Interpretations of meanings and references to Hebrews and Jews have been typically skewed by reason of christian antisemitism.  This attitude has perverted the post-modern understanding of many.   Some interpretations are correct, but most are not.

First, it should be clearly understood that ALL prophecy centers upon the nation, the people and the State of Israel.  

Second, it should be understood the church is not and never has been a part of it. (*) 

Interpretations cannot be appropriately applied if these principles are not respected.  For instance, Adonai liberated the Hebrew people from slavery in Egypt, but they didn't become a nation until they agreed to the issuance of LAW from the holy mountain.  This is an accepted political principle by secular historians as well as in Jewish tradition.  Church types are generally ignorant of the distinction.

You wrote above, "Israel the divided Nation into House of Israel, House of Judah with different destinies."

While true that the ancient nation of Israel was divided during the reign of Solomon's idiot son Rehoboam, it's destiny is NOT to remain so.  Please read Ezekiel 37:15-28.  

Ezekiel 37 is divided into two prophecies, both referencing Israel.  The first section, called the Dry Bones prophecy speaks to the rebirth of the modern State of Israel.  The second section, called the Two-stick prophecy speaks to the regathering of the nation into one specific place - Eretz Yisrael.   Jewish scholars have long discussed what they refer to as the Two-House theory, but the modern regathering of Hebrew people, called Aliyah, has put a lot of holes into their theories.  Church types refuse to acknowledge both God's promises and recent history. Instead they bury their collective heads in the shifting sands of antisemitic Replacement Theology.

You ended your post by writing, "I also agree with you on the 'lack of understanding' today.  I think there should be a test on the OLD TEST one has to pass to be able to even 'speak' on the New Testament...to harsh??? IDK, that is how I see it though.  

Do you see 'knowledge being poured out', as having any effect on the whole 'word preacher control thing'? "

While we both seem to generally follow the same track, I must ask for clarification of the term "OLD TEST".  By this do you mean OT/Old Covenant or Tanakh?  If you do, then I most heartily agree with you.  

Unfortunately, most church types automatically reject any mention of detailed study on the subject.  How then shall they be taught?   I have personally been ejected from study groups because the people in attendance HATED the very suggestion of Bible study in general and OT study in particular.  A very good friend of mine from military days has had the same sad experience despite his very light touch on the subject.   Church types are ignorant and prefer to remain so.  Thus they know not the gospel message.

I'm not sure what you mean by "knowledge poured out" as applying to the church today mostly because we are presently neck deep in what was predicted to be the Great Apostasy.  

Knowledge of God's LAW or any concept of a covenant relationship with Adonai is forbidden by congregations today.  The pouring out of knowledge in the past two hundred years has been unique in human history.  Technology rules the planet.  

The minds and hearts of mankind now worship the work of our own hands (such as AI).  Today we of the human race are further from God and each other than at any other time in history. Nuclear war hangs over our heads like the sword of Damocles hanging above him by a thread.  Meanwhile our churches preach contentment  much like Dr. Strangelove who declared he no longer worried because he'd learned to love the bomb.  Nobody seems to care.  No leader seeks peace.  No citizen cries out to God for it.  We wave the flag and holler for MORE WAR.

Technology hasn't been the blessing it purports to be.  In truth it's been a curse.  For instance, computers were originally developed to assist with the US government census.  Contrast this with the work of God opposing King David's census of Yisrael.  Are computers really a blessing or a curse?  When I was young the world spun on its axis quite well without them.  Today we worship them.  In other words, I believe the reference to knowledge is about high technology, not knowledge of God.  ANY Bible based knowledge of God is automatically rejected by everybody.  

Indeed the knowledge of ANY Holy book seems to be rejected.  The Qur'an says that the children of Israel were given their land by Allah because they suffered under pharaoh.  Do modern Muslims respect the words of their own holy book?  They do not.  The Qur'an also predicted the opposition of Muslims against Yisrael and calls those who do so "losers".  (That's a literal translation, btw.)

It's a sad statement of our time that;

- NOBODY gives a damn about God.

- Nobody respects the Bible.

- Nobody even cares about their fellow man.  

- THE ONLY thing church types love is their pet doctrine, which most of the time is false BECAUSE they know not the gospel nor do they understand the divine covenant relationship required by the OT.

APART FROM THE LAW NO ONE CAN BE SAVED.

The church is Ichabod (1 Samuel 4:21)

It is time for us to REPENT of our SINs and wickedness.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Replacement theology, an antisemitic doctrine of the church, is NOT a legitimate measure of God's plan of redemption.   The kingdom of God is a JEWISH kingdom.   Jesus Christ is KING OF THE JEWS, not pope of the gentiles.  Big difference! Saving grace unto Jesus implies adoption into His (Jewish) kingdom - NOT the church of Rome, Baptists, Presbyterians, Universalists, Pentecostals  or the non-denominational church's of America.  

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