If you are picked up as a wise virgin you will not be seated under the Altar

[R. Hartono]

Because the Altar is the placed for Christian martyrs awaiting their fellow martyrs until their numbers accomplished at the end of great tribulation.

But the wise virgins are taken alive in great number/ the great multitude of Revelation 7. And they shall be seated at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. 

The foolish virgins scream "Lord Loord, open to us". Something so horror about to befall and they know that. Their bridegroom will be the antichrist Frankenstein who recovered from deadly wound.

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by R. Hartono

[WilliamL]

On 6/19/2023 at 10:57 PM, R. Hartono said:

Because the Altar is the placed for Christian martyrs awaiting their fellow martyrs until their numbers accomplished at the end of great tribulation.

But the wise virgins are taken alive in great number/ the great multitude of Revelation 7.

The martyrs of the 5th Seal will be killed before the Rapture, which takes place at the 6th Seal. They will be part of that Rapture, and therefore among the "great multitude" of Rev. 7.

[R. Hartono]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The martyrs of the 5th Seal will be killed before the Rapture, which takes place at the 6th Seal. They will be part of that Rapture, and therefore among the "great multitude" of Rev. 7.

They must wait a little time until their number is accomplished in the great tribulation.

 

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The martyrs of the 5th Seal will be killed before the Rapture, which takes place at the 6th Seal. They will be part of that Rapture, and therefore among the "great multitude" of Rev. 7.

I agree. In Revelation 20 the martyrs belong to the first resurrection, or, as Paul calls it in Philippians 3:11, "ATTAINING to the out-resurrection". The Greek for "resurrection" is used only this once in the whole Bible. It literally means, "a resurrection out of the resurrection". Since all men are guaranteed resurrection in 1st Corinthians 15:22, "ATTAINING" to it makes it a special resurrection. In Revelation 20 it is called "the FIRST" resurrection. The word "first" in the Greek can mean "first in time", or it can mean "first in importance". Since the Overcomers/Martyrs include those who faced the Beast, their resurrection, like the Two Witnesses can come at the end of the age. That means that Christ was resurrected 2,000 years before them. This makes the meaning of "protos" "FIRST IN IMPORTANCE" 

In the Tabernacle and/or Temple there are two altars. 1. the Altar of sacrifice in the outer court, and 2. the Altar of Incense hard against the curtain to the Holy of Holies. The altar of sacrifice has the following attributes. It is Acacia Wood overlaid with brass. It is fixed to the earth and no steps up to it are allowed. It is on this altar that the substitute animals were slain. The reason that it must be fixed to the earth is that a man's nakedness will be shown if he ascends. It is this altar of sacrifice that is meant in Revelation 6:9.

The altar of incense, except for its dedication, was not to have blood on it. It was Acacia Wood overlaid with gold. On it was the incense that the High Priest took into the Holy of Holies. This speaks for Christ carrying our prayers to the Father. It is also called the "Golden Altar". Wood typifies humanity. Gold typifies the nature of God. Brass typifies judgement.

The martyrs being UNDER the altar of sacrifice means that they were still in Hades - the place of disembodied SOULS (see Acts 2:27-34). The Overcomers and Martyrs will be the first to escape the gates of Hades in resurrection. The fact that they must still wait under the altar shows that the age has not yet ended. What is interesting is the white garment given to them. The Christian is given a garment of righteousness when he is born again. For the Wedding Feats they must make their own (Rev.19:7-8). So this third white garment is unusual. It is probably given to martyrs because they call for judgment, but are sinners themselves. Christ promised that the saint who calls for judgment will receive the same (Matt.7:1). This white garment would be a justification given to a martyr to pass judgment even though he is a sinner too.

The martyrs are automatically wise Virgins. They have proven to love Christ more than themselves. They have paid the ultimate price for extra oil both their soul and their physical life.

[AdHoc]

14 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

They must wait a little time until their number is accomplished in the great tribulation.

 

Maybe not. Martyrs for Christ are being martyred every day. 2nd Thessalonians 2 says that out "gathering to Christ" is after the "revealing" of the man of sin. It is not after the coronation and enthronement. The Beast must go through three phases. 1. His revealing where his capabilities are displayed to the 1o kings who invest their power in him. 2. His coronation at the beginning of the last seven of Daniel 9. 3. His taking his place in the Holy of Holies after 42 months of reign. Revelation 6 does not say how the martyrs died. Revelation 20 gives three reasons and thus three time periods.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

1. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded* for the witness of Jesus. That is, all martyrs since Stephen

2. and I saw the souls of then that were beheaded for the word of God. That is, all martyrs since Abel

3. and I saw them that were beheaded because they had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; That is, all martyrs during the last 42 months

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

* I am aware of the description of their death by beheading. I judge it to be a generic term for death by authorities. It saves a long list of different types of death.

[Obedient Christian girl]

  There is no greater honor than to become a martyr for the glory of God.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, Obedient Christian girl said:

  There is no greater honor than to become a martyr for the glory of God.

Matthew 10:28KJV

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

[R. Hartono]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Maybe not. Martyrs for Christ are being martyred every day. 2nd Thessalonians 2 says that out "gathering to Christ" is after the "revealing" of the man of sin. It is not after the coronation and enthronement. The Beast must go through three phases. 1. His revealing where his capabilities are displayed to the 1o kings who invest their power in him. 2. His coronation at the beginning of the last seven of Daniel 9. 3. His taking his place in the Holy of Holies after 42 months of reign. Revelation 6 does not say how the martyrs died. Revelation 20 gives three reasons and thus three time periods.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

1. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded* for the witness of Jesus. That is, all martyrs since Stephen

2. and I saw the souls of then that were beheaded for the word of God. That is, all martyrs since Abel

3. and I saw them that were beheaded because they had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; That is, all martyrs during the last 42 months

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

* I am aware of the description of their death by beheading. I judge it to be a generic term for death by authorities. It saves a long list of different types of death.

Imho All deceased saints and martyrs of OT n NT will be raised first as 1 Thes 4:16-17. Before the tribulation.

Whole resurrection of Rev 20 specific to those who didnt worship the beast in great tribulation.

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Imho All deceased saints and martyrs of OT n NT will be raised first as 1 Thes 4:16-17. Before the tribulation.

Whole resurrection of Rev 20 specific to those who didnt worship the beast in great tribulation.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. You didn't address my arguments so I'll let them stand. I am aware that many hold your understanding.

Go well bro.

[DeighAnn]

On 6/21/2023 at 4:27 PM, AdHoc said:

The martyrs being UNDER the altar of sacrifice means that they were still in Hades - the place of disembodied SOULS (see Acts 2:27-34).

The ALTAR of Sacrifice in IN HADES?  WOW.   


Disembodied SOULS don't 'cry out' and don't 'need ROBES' and aren't in heaven.


1Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:


The TONGUE is glad
The HEART rejoice
The FLESH rests in hope NOW, and that would be because of the gift of Salvation, have no fear, believe in the Lord - never die.   No sorrow like the heathen, we follow Him at death of the flrst body, we follow Him when returning to the earth.


27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

BODIES LEFT IN HELL suffer corruption.

28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

David, the king, DIED, HIS FLESH BODY was buried, IT STILL IS BURIED.  It is going back to dust.  It will never be raised up.  There is NO resurrection OF DEAD BODIES, the resurrection is of the dead souls in spiritual bodies, still mortal. 


30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

AGAIN, 'bodies' left in hell SEE CORRUPTION.  We have 2 bodies.  ALL 1st bodies go to hell.  2nd bodies go to EITHER heaven or hell.  The one who 'never dies' goes to heaven doesn't suffer corruption.  The one who does die 'goes to the grave' suffers corruption

32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

David had to be ALIVE when 'he saith himself'

35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Since that doesn't happen until AFTER the war in heaven at the very earliest, there can be no Pre Trib Rap
 

36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

1The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel.

2Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?

3Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.

4That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.

5Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

6For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

7He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.

IF THE VINE had been 'raptured' then how is HIS VINE LAID WASTE?  


8Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth.

9The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests, the LORD'S ministers, mourn.
  
10The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.

11Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.

NO 'WHEAT HARVEST' FOLLOWED BY A 'BARLEY' one.  LET THE WHEAT AND TARES grow together UNTIL THE END 
 

12The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.

13Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.

14Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD,

15Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

 who ARE THESE ELDERS???
 

16Is not the meat cut off before our eyes, yea, joy and gladness from the house of our God?

17The seed is rotten under their clods, the garners are laid desolate, the barns are broken down; for the corn is withered.

18How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture; yea, the flocks of sheep are made desolate.

19O LORD, to thee will I cry: for the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness, and the flame hath burned all the trees of the field.

20The beasts of the field cry also unto thee: for the rivers of waters are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness.