Why the focus on just a few people functioning (up front) in our gatherings?

[B Judson]

God's Word is very clear about His instructions.

The catholics don't go by the Lord's instructions so it's very obvious they are in opposition to the Lord and are not actually Christians.

I have family members who have converted to catholic (we were not raised religious) and they think mankind should put the traditions and teachings of the cathoics BEFORE what God says in His Word.

It mazes me how anybody could think catholics are Christians!

[Vine Abider]

4 minutes ago, B Judson said:

God's Word is very clear about His instructions.

The catholics don't go by the Lord's instructions so it's very obvious they are in opposition to the Lord and are not actually Christians.

I have family members who have converted to catholic (we were not raised religious) and they think mankind should put the traditions and teachings of the cathoics BEFORE what God says in His Word.

It mazes me how anybody could think catholics are Christians!

While what you say may be true, it is not really the topic of this thread, which is why congregations focus so much on a few people up front in their meetings.

I am not a supporter of the Roman Catholic system, by any mean . . .  and this thread earlier discussed the role the RCC played in creating the clergy/laity system most churches employ today, but it isn't about delving into the things you mentioned.

Please keep comments related to the thread's topic, okay?

(BTW - no matter how bad we think any of the 7 churches in Revelation were, the Lord still speaks to believers in each of them.)

 

[Anne2]

18 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

While what you say may be true, it is not really the topic of this thread, which is why congregations focus so much on a few people up front in their meetings.

I am not a supporter of the Roman Catholic system, by any mean . . .  and this thread earlier discussed the role the RCC played in creating the clergy/laity system most churches employ today, but it isn't about delving into the things you mentioned.

Please keep comments related to the thread's topic, okay?

(BTW - no matter how bad we think any of the 7 churches in Revelation were, the Lord still speaks to believers in each of them.)

 

Ok, this I believe does speak to the subject of this thread, as well as the post you are speaking to and my posts.

The reformation. As far as I can discern. Catholic (original of Eastern type) councils are no different than what we call essentials of the faith. Christology, and theology trinity and deity and work of Christ. The reformers of all denominations adopted these  council decisions as the beliefs which they by them own selves claimed for a common Orthodoxy among them that unified them as distinct with relation to others (heresy).

So, my point here is these were doing no different than the Church which established these councils in the Roman Empire as true Christianity (vs heresy).

The only difference is, they by their own authority alone were making them (agreeing) binding for Orthodox essentials, among the various protestant denominations. JUST LIKE the Church of the fourth century had done amongst themselves. Would any find fault with this as a fact? And as such do we still maintain that today?

Edited July 13, 2023 by Anne2

[WilliamL]

On 7/11/2023 at 11:01 AM, Vine Abider said:

Being backed by the state usually means essentially getting into bed with the state. ...

"Lutheran clergy became civil servants and the Lutheran churches became part of the state.[1]"

Ultimately being manifested in China. One of their leaders just recently said that they would teach the world proper Christianity. (I could not find the reference.)

All this being the fruits of 2000 years of Christ's Church becoming man's church, operating under man's rules and man's beliefs.

[B Judson]

I read where someone had brought up catholics, so.... and, there's no evidence that any of the 7 churches in Revelation practiced catholicism

[Alive]

5 minutes ago, B Judson said:

I read where someone had brought up catholics, so.... and, there's no evidence that any of the 7 churches in Revelation practiced catholicism

The church of Rome, had not yet been established--it was 200 years later.

[Anne2]

16 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Ultimately being manifested in China. One of their leaders just recently said that they would teach the world proper Christianity. (I could not find the reference.)

All this being the fruits of 2000 years of Christ's Church becoming man's church, operating under man's rules and man's beliefs.

Was this spoken of China, or the USA, etc. Or was it speaking to those commanded to bring the Gospel to all nations?

Rom 13;1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4  For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5  Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6  For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
 

To whom did Paul appeal to?

Edited July 13, 2023 by Anne2

[WilliamL]

10 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Was this spoken of China, or the USA, etc.

This was spoke by a Communist official about their plan to promote Chinese Communist-style state Christianity to the whole world.

11 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4  For he is the minister of God to thee for good.

This is spoken of secular rulers who are supposed to enforce righteous secular laws about such things as theft and violence and civil disturbances. NOT deny religious rights.

Many Christians "do that which is good" and are punished for it by UNrighteous rulers. (Such as in China.) Paul's words do not apply to those rulers.

[Anne2]

1 minute ago, WilliamL said:

This is spoken of secular rulers who are supposed to enforce righteous secular laws about such things as theft and violence and civil disturbances. NOT deny religious rights.

Agree. Which at the time of the legalization, and then preference, all the Church become under, and or flowed from.

 

3 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Many Christians "do that which is good" and are punished for it by UNrighteous rulers. (Such as in China.) Paul's words do not apply to those rulers.

Again I agree.

[Vine Abider]

42 minutes ago, B Judson said:

I read where someone had brought up catholics, so.... and, there's no evidence that any of the 7 churches in Revelation practiced catholicism

Yes, the Romish church system was brought up as a matter of the establishment of the clergy-laity system.  That goes to the heart of this thread's topic - why certain ones are so apparent in much of Christendom's gatherings, while the bulk of the members of the body don't really function all that much in these gatherings.

So while the RCC wasn't established until a couple centuries after John's writings, many commentators say that there is a prophetic nature to the letters to the 7 churches.  And a number would say Thyatira mirrored the practices you speak of.

35 minutes ago, Alive said:

The church of Rome, had not yet been established--it was 200 years later.

Of course this is correct, but the Lord knew what was coming.