Paul's Thorn in the flesh........

[amazingrace]

*ahem*

THE GREEK SHOWS IT WAS PHYSICAL

Just wondering if anyone saw that earlier...it has gone completely ignored.

Yes, the Greek does indicate a physical affliction. And yes, it has been mentioned, that it was probably a physical problem... and most likely a visible physical problem, seeing as how some that Paul wrote to did not reject him on account of it. Nevertheless, because of Paul's eloquence in referring to his affliction as being from the devil, there are now, and always will be those who try to make his thorn in the flesh spiritual. How about this in its simplicity.... Paul's physical affliction was most likely a painful, permanent disability as a result of having been beaten and stoned and left for dead ... who did this to him? Well... the enemies of God ... men who wanted to stop Paul from advancing the gospel message ... so whether they knew it or not, they were doing Satan's work. (But Paul did know who was behind it).

[apothanein kerdos]

*ahem*

THE GREEK SHOWS IT WAS PHYSICAL

Just wondering if anyone saw that earlier...it has gone completely ignored.

Yes, the Greek does indicate a physical affliction. And yes, it has been mentioned, that it was probably a physical problem... and most likely a visible physical problem, seeing as how some that Paul wrote to did not reject him on account of it. Nevertheless, because of Paul's eloquence in referring to his affliction as being from the devil, there are now, and always will be those who try to make his thorn in the flesh spiritual. How about this in its simplicity.... Paul's physical affliction was most likely a painful, permanent disability as a result of having been beaten and stoned and left for dead ... who did this to him? Well... the enemies of God ... men who wanted to stop Paul from advancing the gospel message ... so whether they knew it or not, they were doing Satan's work. (But Paul did know who was behind it).

THe problem is that it wasn't people. It was a messenger of Satan that placed a physical sickness on Paul, most likely in the eyes. It isn't that hard to read.

[CarolineS]

Here's a clue no one has mentioned (at least I dont recall reading it):

Galations

4: 13 You know because of physical infirmity I preached the gospel to you at the first.

4:14 And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

4:15 What then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

Whatever the infirmity was, they did not reject him on account of it (i.e. he was not unclean... leper or discharge). In fact, they seemed to have compassion on him, to the degree that they would have given him their own eyes if they could. This seems to insinuate that his infirmity had something to do, at least in part, with his vision. Taking this along with the other passage that in the Greek indicates that his infirmity had to do with being beaten about the eyes, I think we come as close as possible to what his infirmity was... something to do with his eyes, or his vision ... or maybe even severe headaches manifesting in the eyes ... like migraine? I get migraines that feel like I am being stabbed in the eye with a sharp stick.

Good post.

Jesus appeared to Paul on the way to Damascas. Paul's vision was affected. I don't think it was ever the same again. I think he had very poor vision for the rest of his life. As posted above, Paul states he had a physical infirmity, a trial in his flesh, and then states to those around him, "you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me."

I think his poor vision was a reminder of his conversion and of course also how God's grace would be sufficient.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[ruah brit]

*ahem*

THE GREEK SHOWS IT WAS PHYSICAL

Just wondering if anyone saw that earlier...it has gone completely ignored.

Yes, the Greek does indicate a physical affliction. And yes, it has been mentioned, that it was probably a physical problem... and most likely a visible physical problem, seeing as how some that Paul wrote to did not reject him on account of it. Nevertheless, because of Paul's eloquence in referring to his affliction as being from the devil, there are now, and always will be those who try to make his thorn in the flesh spiritual. How about this in its simplicity.... Paul's physical affliction was most likely a painful, permanent disability as a result of having been beaten and stoned and left for dead ... who did this to him? Well... the enemies of God ... men who wanted to stop Paul from advancing the gospel message ... so whether they knew it or not, they were doing Satan's work. (But Paul did know who was behind it).

THe problem is that it wasn't people. It was a messenger of Satan that placed a physical sickness on Paul, most likely in the eyes. It isn't that hard to read.

The problem is that, God wounds and God heals, So who was that messenger of the "adversary of God? God? How can God be the messenger of the adversary of God? Even in the book of Job Satan told God "Streatch forth your hand".

De 32

39 'Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.

Denise

[ruah brit]

If the thorn was actually a physical infirmity. Then it was inflicted by a person who was a messenger of the adversary of God (satan). It could have been inflicted in the stoning. Paul prayed to be healed many times and God said "No". Otherwise it is a Spiritual likeness about those who were against God and Paul that tormented Paul in the flesh.

Denise

[apothanein kerdos]

Listen, it was a demon. Both Angel and messenger are the same word in Greek....why do you try and theorize what isn't there?

[amazingrace]

Well, whatever it was, I think we can all agree that Paul was humbled by it, submitted to the Lord in the matter, and used it as an object lesson for others to learn from, and in the process, God was glorified.

[Kabowd]

Well, whatever it was, I think we can all agree that Paul was humbled by it, submitted to the Lord in the matter, and used it as an object lesson for others to learn from, and in the process, God was glorified.

Wise words. And it appears duane65 decided to bail.

[Guest Zayit]

*ahem*

THE GREEK SHOWS IT WAS PHYSICAL

Just wondering if anyone saw that earlier...it has gone completely ignored.

Take a look at post # 30

You mean the useless point that added nothing to the discussion?

Only usless to those who are trying to corral the truth into an arena of deception. If you are going to literally translate then literally translate Mr. rude.

Denise

[Guest Zayit]

I was looking to see where Paul would have gotten this word to see how it could be applied, and found this in the Torah:

Numbers 33:55 But if you don't drive out the inhabitants of the land before you, those you allow to remain will become thorns in your eyes and in your sides; they will harass you in the land where you will live. Which does fall in line somewwhat with the possessed woman in Acts 16