Are carnal Christian’s saved?

[Stewardofthemystery]

26 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

When a believer is sinning, they ARE carnal.  And they are grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.

Most believers apparently are not aware of the issues of being out of fellowship and being under the control of the flesh.  Do you believe that a saved person cannot sin?

It is the non believers that sin, not those who are born of the Spirit.

1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

 

 

[Willa]

Gal 5:16  I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Gal 5:19  Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,  Gal 5:20  idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,  Gal 5:21  envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Gal 5:23  gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Gal 5:24  And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

There is a difference between those who practice evil and those who fall and sin occasionally.  It seems also that many are born again and live in the Spirit but haven't learned yet to hear God's voice and recognize His leading so as to walk in the Spirit.  We all are growing and being transformed by His Spirit.  It is a process.  

2Co 3:18  But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

[FreeGrace]

10 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

It is the non believers that sin, not those who are born of the Spirit.

The Bible disagrees with your claim.

10 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

I'm glad you quoted from 1 John.  But you simply misunderstand what these 3 verses mean.

This is what John BEGAN his epistle with:

1 Jn 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us

1 Jn 1:10 - If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Those who claim that as Christians they do NOT sin have "deceived themselves and the truth is not in them" per v.8 and have "made God out to be  LIAR" per v.10.  So, is that your situation?

The very FACT that believers will continue to sin in their life is why John wrote this:

1 Jn 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

This verse is in the chapter on FELLOWSHIP with the Lord.  Sin offends God.  That breaks fellowship and He won't hear our prayers when out of fellowship.

Psa 66:18 -  If I regard iniquity in my heart, The Lord will not hear:

The only way to restore fellowship is to confess our sins.

I hope the Word has spoken to you today.

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

It is the non believers that sin, not those who are born of the Spirit.

1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

 

 

@Willa @FreeGrace

I agree with @FreeGrace and @Willa. 1st John 3:8-9 does  not address the flesh. It addresses that "which is Born of God*. According the John 3:6 ONLY the human spirit is born of Spirit.

The human is built in three parts like the Tabernacle / Temple. The flesh is the Outer Court, the Soul is the Holy Place and the human spirit is the Holy of Holies. God occupies the human spirit and  never infringes on His holiness to dwell in the SOUL. In 1st Corinthians 5 we have a Christian who committed a rather defiling sin - incest. Paul, under inspiration, hand him over for the destruction of the flesh "that the spirit might be saved".

The flesh is from the womb and carries the Adamic nature. We have two very powerful arguments to show the actions of the flesh - even that of a Christian.

1. Look at the condition of the Churches. From Acts thru Revelation we see only Problems. The only Church without a correction morally is Thessaloniki. Perhaps we can add Philadelphia. The rest all need stern words from Paul, Peter and John. But even more telling is our Lord's demeanor in Revelation 2 and 3.

2. Romans 5:12-17 and 6:23 give the consequences of sin - physical death. As long as Christians are dying you know that Romans 7 is correct. It is a "body of this death". Galatians 5:17 is decisive. The flesh is still master of a man's behavior.

We can debate this point, but the bottom line is that we have a terribly damaged flesh that brings us down continually. It is a "vile" body, in which do GROAN and which must be replaced by a resurrection body as the present one is not fit for the kingdom (1st Cor.15:49-54).

[Stewardofthemystery]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

This is what John BEGAN his epistle with:

1 Jn 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us

1 Jn 1:10 - If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Those who claim that as Christians they do NOT sin have "deceived themselves and the truth is not in them" per v.8 and have "made God out to be  LIAR" per v.10.  So, is that your situation?

The very FACT that believers will continue to sin in their life is why John wrote this:

1 Jn 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

This verse is in the chapter on FELLOWSHIP with the Lord.  Sin offends God.  That breaks fellowship and He won't hear our prayers when out of fellowship.

Psa 66:18 -  If I regard iniquity in my heart, The Lord will not hear:

The only way to restore fellowship is to confess our sins.

I hope the Word has spoken to you today.

1John1:8 and Romans 7 are the go to verses for practicing sinners.  I know this because I have been fighting this spiritual warfare for many years now.

Truth is sinners do not understand what both Paul is saying in Romans 7 and what John is saying in 1John1:8.

John is simply stating “that all men have sinned.” It is the same message of Paul…

Romans 3:23

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

So there is a harmony to the words of God, without contradiction.

 

But if 1John1:8 was saying, what sinners want it say, then there is contradiction to John’s testimony.

 

Because John also said…

 

1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

1 John 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18

We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

1 John 3:5-6

King James Version

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

So Both John and Paul agree, all men have sinned, but when we are born again of the Spirit we will no longer continue living in sin.

[enoob57]

for me the answer is simple:

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart. Proverbs 21:2 ESV

And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:27 ESV

And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, Acts 15:8 ESV

Would not God discover this? For he knows the secrets of the heart. Psalm 44:21 ESV

And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15 ESV

God has specifically said to us- only He knows the heart... so we cannot judge! However, we can discern in this manner

Matthew 7:16 (KJV)

[16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

We do not judge the heart but we do discern by their activity and do not fellowship with them...

[Stewardofthemystery]

15 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The flesh is from the womb and carries the Adamic nature. We have two very powerful arguments to show the actions of the flesh - even that of a Christian.

1. Look at the condition of the Churches. From Acts thru Revelation we see only Problems. The only Church without a correction morally is Thessaloniki. Perhaps we can add Philadelphia. The rest all need stern words from Paul, Peter and John. But even more telling is our Lord's demeanor in Revelation 2 and 3.

2. Romans 5:12-17 and 6:23 give the consequences of sin - physical death. As long as Christians are dying you know that Romans 7 is correct. It is a "body of this death". Galatians 5:17 is decisive. The flesh is still master of a man's behavior.

We can debate this point, but the bottom line is that we have a terribly damaged flesh that brings us down continually. It is a "vile" body, in which do GROAN and which must be replaced by a resurrection body as the present one is not fit for the kingdom (1st Cor.15:49-54).

Right, to be firstborn “of the flesh” carries with it that Adam nature, or that “sin nature.” That is what is supposed to be “put to death” in us when we are crucified with Christ.

Notice what is written

In Adam all die

The wage of sin is death

If you live to flesh you shall die

To be carnally minded is death

All these lead to “Death”

If any man is still under this condition then he is already “Dead”spiritually to God.

You must be born again of the Spirit to escape this condition of “Death.”

[AdHoc]

2 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

You must be born again of the Spirit to escape this condition of “Death.”

That is my point. Nobody escapes death.

Those raptured without dying must be changed - drastically.

[Stewardofthemystery]

7 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

That is my point. Nobody escapes death.

 

I’m not talking about physical death, but spiritual death.

If one is still “in sin”they “are dead”to God.

Ephesians 2:1

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Colossians 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

[enoob57]

5 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

I’m not talking about physical death, but spiritual death.

If one is still “in sin”they “are dead”to God.

Ephesians 2:1

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Colossians 2:13

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Are you saying perfection by works?