Many doubts about Christianity

[Guest shiloh357]

Oh and BTW, Jesus IS mentioned in history contemporary to his day, outside of the Bible and Josephus.

Go on . . . .

I will pull them up for you when I get home from work, tonight!!

[caldog]

Wow. alot of questions. I'm not a scholar, by any stretch, but would like to comment on your questions, over time.

[caldog]

The temptation of Jesus, why would Satan, if he knew Jesus was fully God ever tempt him. Satan of all people knows that God can not choose evil, this story just doesn't make sense Why would satan waste his time.

Satan is a liar and the father of lies. He is a deciever and I believe He is decieved. His purpose is to thwart God's plan. He is certainly intellegent and knowledgable. On the last day he will be cast into the lake of fire. God says that. Satan knows Gods word, but doesnt believe it.

[caldog]

All the miracles, healings, feeding the thousands, raising the dead, and the other things Jesus did. Why is there not one single recorded writing about Jesus from anyone of the era......

there are also some historical notes found from Pilate.

[Guest JAR61]

Where's the historical support? Excellent question. Before I begin it is important to understand that we live in an era in which publication of information, be it written, electronic or other is so easy to come by and to be produced. Our mistake is to approach certain subjects with a contemporary prejudice.

Jesus was written about in many forms... including the Quran, Josephus who was in fact the historian in Judea at the time and a Roman citizen. There is much written in the accounts of Origen and many other 1st century theological scholars.

Much has be written in the Roman arena esp. where it concerns Pontius Pilate and I have personally read those particular documents. The problem is concerning Pilate we dont know who the actual writers are so their authenticity is debated.

Recently, archaeologists have uncovered the box (ossuary)containing the remains of James the brother of Jesus. While initial debate perpetuated by skeptics, the investigation is continuing and evidence is pointing in the direction of its authenticity.

[Smalcald]

I think the bible is pretty good historical evidence. But, there are other references as mentioned above, although they are minor.

I think it is important to keep in mind that Jesus at the time He lived would have been seen as a very minor player in the Roman empire, in fact would not have been considered an important figure at all, not really worthy of any mention. Consider He was a homeless itinerant preacher with a small following, a bit of a nut in a backwater province of the Empire. In addition His ministry would be by all objective standards considered a failure, He was crucified with a bunch of losers and criminals, and probably only had a couple of hundred adherents at the most when He was killed. It is not surprising there is not more written about Him from writers of that period. What is amazing is how His resurrection and what He offered those original believers now is known around the globe. No other major religious leader, Mohammed, Moses, Buddha, was such a failure in the human realm. The others all were great leaders and material successes, but Christ stood all of that on its head, a leader of a couple of dozen men and women, without any military backing, without a worldly kingdom or worldly possessions, born into poverty and crucified as a criminal. Yet He changed our world and continues to do so.

[JesusismyLord]

At the end of the book of John, John says Jesus did many other things as well, If every one of them were written down, I suppose the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. John 21:25

This sounds like an huge number of things he did, but this goes back to only 1 or 2 proofs outside of the NT that even speak of Jesus of Nazareth. Again this sounds like the most amazing man in the world, wether you like him or not, but it is baffling that so little is mentioned about him. King Herod has much more written about him in world history. There were earlier posts saying he was in a small town, but feeding the 4,000 and the 5,000 men not including woman and chidren is another tremendous miracle that isn;t spoken of anywhere.

[Guest shiloh357]

Here is how Yochanan Ben Zakkai formed modern Judaism. This shows form a Jewish Scholar, how Judaism we know it came to be. Please note the Bolded parts.

Johanan ben Zakkai Biography Biography

The Jewish teacher Johanan ben Zakkai (active ca. AD 70) was the leading expounder of Jewish law of his time. He founded an important academy at Yavneh.

Johanan ben Zakkai was the youngest among the numerous disciples of the great Hillel and also of Hillel's opponent Shammai. It therefore appears that Johanan was born about 15 B.C. He evidently lived to a ripe old age, for he survived the destruction of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem (A.D. 70). Tradition speaks of his span of life as 120 years. His brilliant mind and diligence enabled him to become conversant with every field of Jewish learning.

Johanan ben Zakkai was a member of the Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem, the assembly of 71 ordained scholars that functioned both as supreme court and as a legislature. In that body, Johanan, a Pharisee, often debated his Sadducean colleagues on issues of Jewish law. While in Jerusalem, he also presided over an important yeshiva. Johanan foresaw that the Jews could not be victorious in their desperate struggle against Rome; he was determined, however, that Judaism should not perish even if the Jewish state and the Temple were destroyed.

While Jerusalem was under siege, Johanan was unable to receive permission to leave the city. He therefore had his pupils carry him out of Jerusalem in a coffin, presumably for burial. Once outside the city, Johanan went to see Vespasian and asked the Roman general to spare the town of Yavneh on the Mediterranean coast, together with its scholars. According to a Talmudic tradition, Johanan predicted to Vespasian that he would soon be chosen emperor, and when this came true, Vespasian granted the rabbi his requests. This was a turning point in Jewish history, for in this unimportant town of Yavneh, Johanan established an academy that had immense influence.

Johanan was not formally designated as Nasi, prince or head of the Sanhedrin, probably because he was not a descendant of Hillel or of Davidic stock, as Hillel was. He nonetheless assumed the duties of this office and the title of Rabban, meaning "our master," which was commonly attached to the rank of Nasi. Yavneh replaced Jerusalem as the new seat of a reconstituted Sanhedrin, which reestablished its authority and became a means of reuniting Jewry.

With the Temple gone, a substitute was necessary for the sacrificial cult. The aged Johanan suggested that the Temple worship be replaced by benevolent deeds; under his influence, the synagogue and house of study replaced the Temple. The important principle was thus established that Judaism does not depend for its existence on land or sanctuary but rather on the preservation of the Jewish spiritual heritage--the Torah and its teachings. This principle played a vital role in the survival of Judaism in the Diaspora.

True to the ideals of his master Hillel, Rabban Johanan advocated peace among men and nations. He was scrupulously ethical in all his dealings and behavior. He taught that the best character attribute a man could possess is a good heart, which he believed included all other virtues. His lofty attitudes and doctrines made Rabban Johanan ben Zakkai the most revered teacher of his times.

Further Reading

Jacob Neusner, A Life of Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai (1960), is a good general study with a bibliography. The sage and his work are discussed in "Disciples of the Wise" in Louis Ginsberg, Students, Scholars and Saints (repr. 1945). A good sketch of Johanan ben Zakkai's work at Yavneh is in chapter 7 in George Foote Moore, Judaism in the First Centuries of the Christian Era, vol. 1 (1927). A historical account is in Heinrich Graetz, History of the Jews, vol. 2, translated by Henrietta Szold (repr. 1940).

Retrieved from Book Rags

And from another site, I retrieved this:

Rebbi Yochanan could not save the city of Yerushalayim itself, he at least rescued the great Torah Sages and thereby insured that the study of Torah would continue uninterruptedly. (Gittin 56)

As he was once walking in Yerushalayim and saw the Bais Ha'mikdosh laying in ruins, his student Rebbi Yehosuah remarked, "Woe to us that the place where we were able to obtain our forgiveness lies in ruins". "My son" answered Rebbi Yochanan. "We must always remember that we are still left with one method of forgiveness that is her equal, and that is gemilas chasodim-doing good deeds."

He would tell his students that there are three things that merit a person with a share in the world to come and they are: a) Living in Eretz Yisroel b) Bringing up one's children to Torah Study c) Reciting Havdala on wine on Motzoei Shabbos. (Pesochim 113)

Retrieved from>>>http://www.campsci.com/iguide/rebbi_yochanan_ben_zakkai.htm

Edited November 10, 2005 by shiloh357

[JesusismyLord]

Here is how Yochanan Ben Zakkai formed modern Judaism. This shows form a Jewish Scholar, how Judaism we know it came to be. Please note the Bolded parts.

Johanan ben Zakkai Biography Biography

The Jewish teacher Johanan ben Zakkai (active ca. AD 70) was the leading expounder of Jewish law of his time. He founded an important academy at Yavneh.

Johanan ben Zakkai was the youngest among the numerous disciples of the great Hillel and also of Hillel's opponent Shammai. It therefore appears that Johanan was born about 15 B.C. He evidently lived to a ripe old age, for he survived the destruction of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem (A.D. 70). Tradition speaks of his span of life as 120 years. His brilliant mind and diligence enabled him to become conversant with every field of Jewish learning.

Johanan ben Zakkai was a member of the Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem, the assembly of 71 ordained scholars that functioned both as supreme court and as a legislature. In that body, Johanan, a Pharisee, often debated his Sadducean colleagues on issues of Jewish law. While in Jerusalem, he also presided over an important yeshiva. Johanan foresaw that the Jews could not be victorious in their desperate struggle against Rome; he was determined, however, that Judaism should not perish even if the Jewish state and the Temple were destroyed.

While Jerusalem was under siege, Johanan was unable to receive permission to leave the city. He therefore had his pupils carry him out of Jerusalem in a coffin, presumably for burial. Once outside the city, Johanan went to see Vespasian and asked the Roman general to spare the town of Yavneh on the Mediterranean coast, together with its scholars. According to a Talmudic tradition, Johanan predicted to Vespasian that he would soon be chosen emperor, and when this came true, Vespasian granted the rabbi his requests. This was a turning point in Jewish history, for in this unimportant town of Yavneh, Johanan established an academy that had immense influence.

Johanan was not formally designated as Nasi, prince or head of the Sanhedrin, probably because he was not a descendant of Hillel or of Davidic stock, as Hillel was. He nonetheless assumed the duties of this office and the title of Rabban, meaning "our master," which was commonly attached to the rank of Nasi. Yavneh replaced Jerusalem as the new seat of a reconstituted Sanhedrin, which reestablished its authority and became a means of reuniting Jewry.

With the Temple gone, a substitute was necessary for the sacrificial cult. The aged Johanan suggested that the Temple worship be replaced by benevolent deeds; under his influence, the synagogue and house of study replaced the Temple. The important principle was thus established that Judaism does not depend for its existence on land or sanctuary but rather on the preservation of the Jewish spiritual heritage--the Torah and its teachings. This principle played a vital role in the survival of Judaism in the Diaspora.

True to the ideals of his master Hillel, Rabban Johanan advocated peace among men and nations. He was scrupulously ethical in all his dealings and behavior. He taught that the best character attribute a man could possess is a good heart, which he believed included all other virtues. His lofty attitudes and doctrines made Rabban Johanan ben Zakkai the most revered teacher of his times.

Further Reading

Jacob Neusner, A Life of Rabbi Johanan ben Zakkai (1960), is a good general study with a bibliography. The sage and his work are discussed in "Disciples of the Wise" in Louis Ginsberg, Students, Scholars and Saints (repr. 1945). A good sketch of Johanan ben Zakkai's work at Yavneh is in chapter 7 in George Foote Moore, Judaism in the First Centuries of the Christian Era, vol. 1 (1927). A historical account is in Heinrich Graetz, History of the Jews, vol. 2, translated by Henrietta Szold (repr. 1940).

Retrieved from Book Rags

And from another site, I retrieved this:

Rebbi Yochanan could not save the city of Yerushalayim itself, he at least rescued the great Torah Sages and thereby insured that the study of Torah would continue uninterruptedly. (Gittin 56)

As he was once walking in Yerushalayim and saw the Bais Ha'mikdosh laying in ruins, his student Rebbi Yehosuah remarked, "Woe to us that the place where we were able to obtain our forgiveness lies in ruins". "My son" answered Rebbi Yochanan. "We must always remember that we are still left with one method of forgiveness that is her equal, and that is gemilas chasodim-doing good deeds."

He would tell his students that there are three things that merit a person with a share in the world to come and they are: a) Living in Eretz Yisroel b) Bringing up one's children to Torah Study c) Reciting Havdala on wine on Motzoei Shabbos. (Pesochim 113)

Retrieved from>>>http://www.campsci.com/iguide/rebbi_yochanan_ben_zakkai.htm

From doing some little research, it says he was leader of the Pharisees of Jerusalem before the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70, afterward founder of the Jewish academy at Jamnia , biblical Jabneel and Jabneh . He emphasized the study of the Torah as the primary religious duty for which humankind was created. After A.D. 70 he taught that deeds of loving kindness might replace sacrifice in achieving atonement.

It doesnt say that they didn;t follow torah before this, but that it now became the primary religious duty and he replaced the sacrifice with deeds of loving kindess.

Christainity also has changed through the years, you had the catholic church from possibley 200 A.D. till 1515 when protestants came out. Within this 1300 years it was all catholics. There is no difference from Johanan ben Zakkai than Martin Luther. I would somewhat agree with your statement about Torah law after the destruction, but I wouldnt agree that it is totally non existant either.

[nebula]

Again this sounds like the most amazing man in the world, wether you like him or not, but it is baffling that so little is mentioned about him. King Herod has much more written about him in world history. There were earlier posts saying he was in a small town, but feeding the 4,000 and the 5,000 men not including woman and chidren is another tremendous miracle that isn;t spoken of anywhere.

Is there evidence of Daniel being mentioned in the historical Babylonian records or writings about Babylon - considering the prominant role that Daniel played to both Babylonian and Medo-Persian kings?