70 Weeks of Daniel

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Triton57 said:

 

I think we're on the same page on the existence, you just combine that existence for both to mean the same (concurrent) and since "wrath" is only related to the 7th trumpet/bowls then they're tied?

I just can't go beyond the explicit words in the text about when wrath begins and what constitutes wrath. I also haven't seen anything in the text that would lead me to believe wrath begins twice or has as it's duration a specific amount of time, which we can discern or reason out, between events or markers. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but right now I don't see it. 

1 hour ago, Triton57 said:

 

 

So backing up from examining the bark on the tree a bit, would you say the Matthew 24:36-39 and Luke 17:26-30 parallels to the coming of the Son of man would line up with the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 and Luke 21:25-28 accounts of the sign of the sixth seal, the Son of man coming in great power and glory and the gathering of the elect?

I think that's reasonable.

1 hour ago, Triton57 said:

 

Would you consider the destruction of the flood (Genesis 6:5-8) and Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 18:16-33) to be God's wrath? If Yeshua says that destruction comes suddenly, would it not follow that the signs of the sixth seal would have to be pretty much immediately followed by God's wrath?

I'm convinced the 6th seal is the herald not only of the appearance of Jesus but of the impending wrath which He brings.

1 hour ago, Triton57 said:

 

God promised not to destroy the earth by flood again, Genesis 9:11, but are reserved to fire against the day of judgment, 2 Peter 3:7, more akin to the judgements of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 19:24-25

 

So when hail and fire mingled with blood are cast to the earth, a mountain burning with fire is cast into the sea, waters becoming bitter, the sun, moon and stars being smitten, demon locusts, etc. These all seem to be pretty bad, but start with the same kind of fire and brimstone judgment of the wrath of God on Sodom and Gomorrah.

I understand where you're going. I cannot now and have not been able to arrange any kind of accurate timeline for the events. 

It could be some of the events are long term, such as the seals, and others are short term. Some may occur immediately upon the sounding of a trump or the breaking of the seal and some may not. A sounding or breaking may allow an event or a condition to occur both now and in the future, or just that moment or just release a future condition or event to occur.

Some events are in order and it's quite clear, others have to be examined to determine when they occur in relation to other events. I'm convinced of a small portion of the order and timing but we aren't given an exact timeline of every event.

In the Gospels we are: A of D, flight, GT, the Signs, Jesus appearance, the gathering of the elect, then I assume wrath after the elects are gathered. 

In Rev I'm trying to put together the pieces of the timeline[elusive] and what I'm discussing with you is what I'm convinced is the case.

Could I be wrong? Certainly.

Am I? Time will reveal the truth.

 

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, Triton57 said:

Revelation 14's interlude I think may be about the time of the transition from the time of Jacob's trouble in Judea where the dragon is going after the woman in Revelation 12:13-16 to the protection of the woman and catching away of the bride before God's wrath is poured out. You see in that chapter the two harvests where the earth is reaped and then the vine of the earth is gathered and cast into the great winepress of the wrath of God symbolizing the time after the harvest of the bride. It's in this chapter we see the 144,000 further described and the angel with the Gospel stating the hour of God's judgment is come and Babylon is fallen. At this same time another angel warns if any worship the beast, his image and receive the mark, will drink the wine of the wrath of God.

Well being a Pre Wrath Rapture (PWR) guy you would have to think that if you see the flashback. But alas, its still a Pre Trib flashback. Prophecy is a unique way of telling people the future. We see the 144,000 (3.5-5 million Jews) standing on Mt. Zion with the Lamb because they will rule with Jesus during the 1000 year reign but when Jesus shows up they are still in the Petra/Bozrah area. 

I am going to show you why so many people get the timing of Prophecy wrong below, and how we just do not get the overall emphasis at times. 

So, we get the overview in Rev. 14:1 of the End Tine Harvest of the Wheat. Then in verses 2-13 we get the pageantry of a soul (Nation of Israel soul as a whole in this case) being saved and Harvested, we get the overview first however, then we are shown the actions and the consequences. 

They sung  new son means Israel repented at the 1335, the heavens gloried in this repentance. They are now seen as "Redeemed Virgins" like we are in Christ Jesus (10 Virgins Brides). They were the "First-fruits" , of the Wheat only. not the Barley (the Church = the Barley).  They have no guile in Christ, and at the time the Jews are saved, Angels have to preach the Gospel unto the whole world, the Two-witnesses mandate is to only get Israel to repent AND to pray down the Plagues against mankind.

This other Angel preaches that the Hour (42 months) of Judgment is come, and that men should fear God, followed by another Angel that says Babylon id fallen, which just means God's Wrath has started, God perceives things differently, when His wrath starts, Satan was cast down to earth, thus Satan, the Leader of Dark Babylon has fallen BUT its not over yet, its just a fait accompli because we see in verses 9-10 that the Angel warns that from this point forward that if any man worships the Beast or takes his Mark, the same will drink the wine of the Wrath of God and be cast into hell. Then the Angel says Blessed is he that dies from henceforth for the name of the Lord (Martyrs under the Altar at the 5th Seal).  So, in essence, Prophecy is not what people think in many cases, we get an OVERVIEW, then we get Israel's journey from salvation unto that end time 1000 year reign with Jesus AND we see the whole world being told Satan (Babylon) has fallen, and that anyone who worships the A.C./Beast or takes the Mark will receive God's Wrath and be cast into hell. SEE IT ALL KNOW?

Now does this verse fit into the Rev. 16 passage? 

Rev. 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Well, no, Jesus can not come as a THEIF at the very end, everyone will know that when the Beast comes to power Jesus will return in exactly 1260 days to kill him and to then set up his Kingdom Age for 1000 years. So, how can he show up as a thief? Answer, he wont, and that is why Prophecy s so hard to grasp at times. What John did here (God wrote the BoR), is he placed an "I TOLD YOU SO" into the Prophecy where the World and its kings, (Babylon the Great, the Confused by Satan kings) are gathering to fight God, he is MOCKING THEM with an I told you so way, way, back. 

So, when does Jesus really come as a THEIF in the night? At the Pre Trib Rapture of course, its the only time when he can come and catch the world and the wicked men unawares. Noah got in the Ark, then the rains came, followed by the flood, those outside the Ark, laughing pre rain, did not know their fate was sealed as soon as God locked Noah into the Ark. The rains came like a thief so to speak. Likewise, when Jesus shows up to SNATCH us the Church up to Heaven Pre Trib, from that point on, no one on the earth will not go through the Tribulation of God's Wrath unless they die a natural death between the time of the Rapture and when God's Wrath falls. So, John in the telling of the 6th Vial Gathering to fight against their own loving God mocks these men who are trying to defeat God by throwing in this He comes like a Thief..........thereby saying I told you so, a long tie ago and you mocked my warnings !! 

So, in truth, yes Rev. 14 is the Three Harvest Chapter, but we are given the details in a more full way after the overview, just like Gen. 1:1 is an overview of all creation and Gen. 1:2 is more about Man's creation. Rev. 14 and the 6th Seal's "Thief in the Night" mention is why people get the TIMINGS all wrong on prophecy. We do not take the time to dig in deep and discover God's style of writing in many cases. We just ASSUME Jesus comes as a Thief at Armageddon when our common sense should say, HOLD UP, is that even possible? John and God is merely mocking these men who failed to heed the warning, because when Jesus raptures the Church (at EITHER TIME.......But my Pre Trib is el correcto) their fates are sealed, just like those men not in the Ark. The Thief in the Night saying can only be about the Rapture of the Church, Paul even tells one of his churches (Thessalonians) that they are not of the dark that the should fear, they are of the light. Therefor the thief will not catch them unawares, only those living in the dark.

9 hours ago, Triton57 said:

Revelation 15 shows just before the seven bowls filling up the wrath of God are poured out, those that had gotten victory over the beast, image, mark, and number of his name singing. Either they have overcome him in the way of 1 John 2:12-14 and are the caught up bride or this is a vision outside of time since Revelation 20:4-5 states that it's after Christ's return that those killed after the catching away during the tribulation are resurrected in addition to the beast given power over the saints for 42 months.

Again, this is pageantry and prose, we are being shown the heart of Israel as they are set to serve as the base for the 1000 year Kingdom Age, after their repentance. Why is this shown now? The coming 7 Vials will end the Babylon Kingdom of Satan's CONFUSION over mankind on earth. Some died who maybe repented but could not get to the Petra/Bozrah area, but most will be on earth for the pageantry of the beginning of Jesus' glorious Kingdom Age. The BoR is not in Chronological Order, as promised, I will g through that later on.

9 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I believe Revelation 12:7-16 speaks to the unparalleled time of Jacob's trouble when the restrainer is removed, allowing the revealing of the man of sin and the dragon is cast from heaven and give the beast his power and great authority. The false prophet gets his power and authority from the beast.

If the Holy Spirit is removed from earth who brings forth all of the Plagues? The Holy Spirits being "TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY" doesn't not mean he is removed from  earth, it means he is removed from his duties of being a ROAD BLOCK to Satan bringing forth his Man of Sin/Anti-Christ/Beast.

 

9 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I think the idolatry all comes back to the dragon using the man of sin puppet to get the worship he wants to steal from God, the revealing of the man of sin when he is in the temple declaring himself to be God.

Satan of course wants to usurp God (I want to me like the MOST HIGH was his original sin). But in the very end, his goal has to be to kill every Jew, this would be his only path to victory, that is why Hitler was so crazy and demented. Satan's goal is to prove God is infallible, thereby he becomes a Free Man so to speak, or a Free Entity. God's truth becomes no truth. Reminds me of most liberal professors. 

9 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I agree the remnant Jews will have 30 days to flee to the wilderness, it's just the 1,290 and 1,260 are shifted to both start at the AoD. I do believe God provided a warning to the remnant Jews BEFORE the beast and that's why they flee.

It is what it is, for whatever reason you refuse to grasp the fact tat each number is THAT MANY DAYS until the 2nd Coming. Learned traits are hard to overcome, which was my point long ago. If the AoD is a warning for 30 days then it can't be the Anti-Christ conquering, its that simple brother.

10 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I believe as the believers in Israel see the forewarnings God gave they will be, along with the two witnesses, essentially telling the future that will happen when this man allowing the rebuilding of the temple and defeating Israel's enemies declares himself God in the temple. Those with ears and the believers in Judea will heed the warning given almost 2,000 years before it happened. Those who do not heed the warning will be the natural branches cut off in unbelief or killed before they can escape. I would say that is significant forewarning.

Again, I think the False Prophet creates an A.I. Image and he demands mankind worship this Beast Man. The Temple gets built between now and the middle of the 70th week, which I think is the April 13, 2029 Apophis Asteroid event. They can build huge Stadiums in three years. You will see this going up in the next couple of years imho. The fact is he can not be the 1290 AoD because he only conquers Israel 30 days later, thus THE WARNIG SIGN is an IMAGE set up by the False Prophet. 

10 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I believe Israel will be supernaturally escaping by the will of God. The eagle is used many times to refer to swiftness and indeed a very similar kind of situation.

 

Yes indeed, God is represented in scriptures as an Eagles Wings. 

10 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I think to the Jews who have just gone through a revival of belief in the Old Covenant will be recognizing these and will eventually turn to Yeshua and accept Him.

The Jews turn to Jesus before they Flee Judea. Why do I say Jesus and not Yeshua mostly? Because I am speaking about the rest of the bible in English, thus I do not feel the need to use select Hebrew words in certain places. Jews called Yeshua were called Jesus as well as Joshua and Jason in the Greek.

So, yes, they turn to Jesus, but they do so before the AoD. 

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, Triton57 said:

How can it start the tribulation when Yeshua says it comes after the unparalleled tribulation of those days in Matthew 24:29? Maybe you don't think the sun, moon, star event is tied to the DOTL, I don't recall.

The Asteroid STARTS the troubles, that happens in Rev. 8, the Chronological Order of the book of Rev. goes like this, Rev. 2 & 3 is the Church Age, Rev. 4 and 5 is the Pre Trib Raptured church in heaven before the seals are ever opened. Rev. 6 is the Seals, which only foretell of God's coming Wrath, Rev. 7 is the Jews fleeing Judea, Rev. 8, 9, and 16 (15&16 are really one chapter) is ALL Of God's Wrath in three chapters, every other Chapter is a Parenthetical Citation chapter of other events going on at the exact same time as these Three Chapters.

Jesus does not say (whatever you are referring unto as "IT" which starts the Tribulation) the Sun, Moon event starts the Trib per se he says it happens IMMEDIATLY AFTER the Tribulation of those days, but he is inferring IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation STARTS via Trump's 1&2, the Fires start burning the trees first as an Asteroid is want to do, it breaks apart somewhat, the Sulfur Balls start fires(Trump #1), that is what destroyed Sodom. Then we see the Impact with Trump #2, then we see the FALLOUT (Poisonous Fallout or WORMWOOD) with Trump #3 and then FINALLY (Trump #4) we see the Sun and Moon GO DARK IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days [BEGIN] we have to be able to understand the lingo, Jesus is saying AFTER THE 1260 DAYS TRIBULATION PERIOD BEGINS the Sun and Moon goes dark just AFTERWARDS! Not at his SECOND COMING, you guys pull verse 30 and 31 into verse 29 which is only about the Sun and Moon Fourth Trump, NOT the 2nd Coming !! I explained this the other day and gave a juxtaposition to Zech. 14:2 which is the DOTL and verse 3 which is the 2nd Coming 1260 days later.

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days(does it say ENDS? No but you assume it does, I assume correctly it means BEGINS because of the obvious CONTEXT, the Sun & Moon events are the Fourth Trump which happens WAY BEFORE the 7th Vial) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then(1260 days later just like in Zech. 14:1-3) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds(Not when the Fourth Trumpet Sounds but at the 7th Vial !! See how you misapply the wording? )  of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds(1260 days later at the Second Coming) from one end of heaven to the other.

These three verses really seem to have set you back as per understanding all of the TIMING TELLS at the very end times. 

11 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I believe the elect are "eternal" Israel, the natural and wild branches on the root, which is Christ, in eternity. When looking at a moment in space-time, other scriptures must be taken into account. For instance, we know that after the signs of the sixth seal the 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel are sealed and we see the multitude in heaven. (In pre-trib parlance, the church has been caught up before the 70th week and Israel is being refined through fire.) Either way the same point is made that at that moment in time, natural Israel who has not yet come to accept Yeshua, but outside of time are already eternal Israel because they will in the future, are indeed the elect. So are the bride, which is also eternal Israel, both natural and grafted branches.

 

Well, again I see the Seals as nothing more than Prophetic Utterances. Just before the DOTL in Rev. 7 Israel does flee Judea, buts its like 3.5-5 million Jews not 144,000 which like the Woman is merely a code. We see the Pre Trib Raptured Saints in Rev. 7:9-16. NO.....its not a future event, Israel repents JUST BEFORE the DOTL which falls in Rev. 8, let me prove this via scriptures, which I think I already did, in order to grasp the points you have to read in full. 

In Rev. 7 we see the Angels are told to HOLD UP the Four Winds (Judgments) which hurt the Sea, Trees and Earth until the 144,000 Jews or 3.5-5 million Jews are SEALED (Saved and Protected) and thus HURT NOT THE EARTH, SEA nor TREES is spoken, bit what hurts the Earth, Sea and Trees? The Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments, that's what. So, the Rev. 8 Trumpets start the DOTL, the Jews repent JUST BEFORE the DOTL it seems in Rev. 7, well Zech. 13:8-9 AND 14:1 confirms this, it is not just pointing tom a future repentance !!

Zech. 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Zech. 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

So, Israel does not repent LATER ON, they repent JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives, that is why Rev. 7 comes JUST BEFORE the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact. And thus it MATCHES the Prophet Zechariah's TIMING also. Israel repents just before the DOTL arrives and Jerusalem falls. AND THEN (1260 days later Jesus shows up in verse 3, SEE BELOW, just like Matt. 24:30 is a 1260 day JUMP.)

3 Then shall the Lord go forth(1260 days after vs. 2), and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

So, in essence, AT THAT TIME, they do indeed repent.

11 hours ago, Triton57 said:

I think as soon as the Gospel went out to the Gentiles as well, it became clear that we are all elect, it's just a matter of timing to see who the audience is at that point in time prophecy is speaking of.

 

That is why Calvinism is in such error. He didn't understand the Predestination Paul was speaking about was God Predestinating a Lamb for us all who CHOOSES to come unto Christ or reject Christ is not relevant to God predestinating a Lamb before the foundations of the world was laid. Good catch.

11 hours ago, Triton57 said:

Matthew 20:1-16 speaks to the laborers and those working all day complaining about those that came at the end of the day getting paid the same. Yeshua says they agreed on the pay. So the last shall be first and the first last, for many are called but few are chosen (G1588 Elect), the same word used for the gathering of the elect. I believe this includes all eternal Israel, but each reference of elect is in the context of the timing.

They of course are CHOOSEN because like a Death Row Inmate given a pardon, the CHOSE themselves to accept that pardon. 

CONTINUE LATER....

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, Triton57 said:

The disciples ask for the sign of Christ's coming (parousia) in Matthew 24:3 and Yeshua describes it as lightning from east to west in verse 27, the days of Noah in verse 37 & 39.

Not so, I can "probably" prove this to you fairly easy.

Jesus coming in the Eastern Skies for all to see in vs. 27 is the 2nd Coming, of course, Matt. 24:37-39 IS NOT the 2nd Coming, it can only be the Rapture. So, as in the Day's of Noah connotes what? That they will be Marrying, giving in marriage, partying etc. as if everything was normal, just like those people were doing when the rains came and then carried them all away. 

Now, I challenge anyone who is intellectually honest to say that at the 2nd Coming, after all of the Wrath of God that kills billion of human beings, so much so Jesus Prophesies in Seal #6 that they will be hiding in the caves and begging to die etc. etc. to really say they believe that AS IN THE DAYS of Noah can be the 2nd Coming, because there is NO WAY they will be Marrying, Eating, Partying like it was normal times at the 2nd Coming. The Matt. 24:36-51 verses is about the Rapture of the Church. Jesus was asked Three Questions, and he has to give the Temples Destruction (When will these things be) and the end of the world as it is known (2nd Advent) and Jesus' COMING [for the Church]. 

One is left and one taken is a 50 percent ratio, 5 of the 10 Virgins is a 50 percent ratio. Again, there is no way that those people at the very end, at the 2nd coming, will be Marrying, Feasting and Partying as if everything was normal. It is just not a possibility. 

15 hours ago, Triton57 said:

We see in verse 30 the Son of man coming (erchomai) in the clouds followed by the gathering of the elect. I understand you place that as Israel. However I see Israel protected in the wilderness while you place this at Christs coming at Armageddon and Israel being gathered at the end of the week, as I understand it. But looking at the context around this time, I find it hard to cast aside that the coming of our Lord and our gathering to Him are not tied to His coming with wrath on the DOTL.

 

Revelation 19 depicts Christ's return at Armageddon to defeat the armies, but there is no mention of gathering of the elect. In fact, we see the elect gathered from one end of heaven to the other. Where does Revelation 19 speak to any of the imagery that Yeshua points to at His coming?

Rev. 19 is about the Marriage of the Bride (Church) to the Lamb and Armageddon is the Marriage Supper back on earth 7 years later. The Jewish Wedding Pattern shows the Bride and Groom reside in the fathers house for 7 days then the Marriage Supper happens. Do y not see the pattern?

15 hours ago, Triton57 said:

All three accounts tie the signs of the sixth seal, which are replete in the Old Testament tied to the DOTL and wrath of God, the appearing of the sign of the Son of man in heaven, the Son fo man coming in the clouds with great power and great glory, the sound of a great trumpet, which it tied to the gathering of His elect from one end of heaven to the other and looking up because our redemption draws nigh.

 

Again, the 6th Seal is prophetic in nature.

15 hours ago, Triton57 said:

You point to Yeshua speaking of the second coming at the end of the 70th week in the Olivet Discourse accounts. About the only common point I can see is that Christ is coming from heaven and treading the winepress of the wrath of God. The one account that clearly describes that time to defeat the armies gathered at Armageddon and stop the reign of the dragon, beast, and false prophet speaks nothing of any of these signs nor any gathering of the elect to Him. Rather they are coming from heaven with Him. Is there any other scripture that depicts the second coming at Armageddon as Revelation 19 does?

Of course it does, the "end of the world" as you should know means the "End of the Age" and that means the Age of Man under Satan's rule, we will at that moment in time shift to the Kingdom Age under Jesus Christ. The absence of evidence is not Evidence of absence as we know. Just because a Gathering if the Elect is not mentioned in any chapter does not mean t does not happen. God is orderly, Rev. 19 is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter about the Church Marrying the Lamb and returning to earth for the Marriage Supper, Israel is not the bride of Christ, BUT......Just around the corner we see the Remnant Church (Gentile Martyrs of Jesus) being Harvested/Judged and rewarded in Rev. 20:4. You are forgetting or not understanding there are Parenthetical Citation chapters in the BoR which are strictly targeted unto certain issues in each instance.

16 hours ago, Triton57 said:

Then there's the passages about the Son of man coming unexpectedly. Matthew 24:36-44, Mark 13:32-37, Luke 21:34-36, 2 Peter 3:10, Matthew 24:36;42-44, 1 Thessalonians 5:2, Revelation 16:15.

 

It's no wonder then that so many passages about His coming are encouraging His believers to look forward to that day and comfort each other. Hebrews 9:28, John 14:1-3, 1 John 2:28, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, 1 Corinthians 1:7.

Just don't conflate the Rapture and 2nd Coming.

16 hours ago, Triton57 said:

It seems to me there is a common narrative of the coming of our Lord, every eye seeing Him, the elect's (the bride of Christ at that time in history) resurrection and gathering to Him. The elect's (natural Israel yet blinded at that time in history) taken to the wilderness. Yeshua said the same thing of Himself coming in the clouds to the high priest.

 

Every eye will see him at the 2nd Coming, not at the Rapture where he calls us up to meet him in the clouds, then we go to Heaven to Marry the Lamb.

16 hours ago, Triton57 said:

Simply stating that He gathers the bride before the 70th week suddenly with no sudden destruction of His wrath until 3.5 years later, is not enough for me to drop all the clear associations of these sampling of passages that I think are very clearly associated with each other and not associated with Revelation 19. "Signs" of His coming are clearly tied to the sudden and unexpected arrival of Christ bringing judgment on the earth, protection of the elect natural branches in the wilderness, and salvation for His bride in removal to heaven before His wrath is poured out.

 

I have proven this time and again. 

16 hours ago, Triton57 said:

Pre-trib has to deal with the fact that the depictions of Christs coming are all tied after and to distinct signs that position says cannot happen because the rapture is imminent and secret (typically). However, there are signs all over scripture describing the very blessed hope pre/mid/post-trib and pre-wrath all wait for. The signs are everywhere and they're not tied to Revelation 19 at Armageddon, they're tied to suddenness (for the world) after the revealing of the man of sin.

 

The Jewish Wedding Pattern proves it is a 7 Day (7 Year) retreat.

16 hours ago, Triton57 said:

This is one of the areas I have issue with. Who said since there was no church when the 69th week ended it won't be when the 70th week starts? Yeah that may sound convenient, but it's along the lines of God not dealing with the church and Israel at the same time. I get and agree with the idea that God deals with the natural and wild branches differently or He wouldn't have blinded the Jews until the fulness of the Gentiles.

There was no Church during the 69 weeks, there will be no church during the 70 week, its just obvious tbh. 

 

[garee]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

I just can't go beyond the explicit words in the text about when wrath begins and what constitutes wrath. I also haven't seen anything in the text that would lead me to believe wrath begins twice or has as it's duration a specific amount of time, which we can discern or reason out, between events or markers. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but right now I don't see it. 

Good point.  What constitutes the wrath? Seeing mankind is under it daily living in bodies of death and believers load is made lighter by the daily bread from our father 

By looking at Genesis it the increased wrath came about as a "increased load". Not designed for the believer Abel the martyr. The load that caused Cain to suffer the pangs of hell unto death all the days of his life. . a restless wanderer .No early parole kicked out of Eden the city of God's pleasure 

Genesis 4:8-13 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

 The increased load. . no extra burdens for those yoked with Christ . .he gives us a the daily bread of forgiveness.

Genesis 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark (666 unconverted mankind ) upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Like if you kill him its no parole for them great heavy tribulation loads.  

The Mark of Cain (666) the mark what God says comes to pass  again no early parole 

[Revelation Man]

On 9/7/2023 at 1:22 AM, Triton57 said:

However, I would argue that the church did exist in its infancy when Yeshua declared the desolation that would befall Jerusalem because they didn't know the hour of His visitation. I would argue that in 70 AD He fulfilled that prophecy dealing with Israel quite harshly I would say and disbursing her throughout all the nations. The church was there and growing during that time. Israel was brought back into the land, being setup for the completion of the time appointed according to the prophecy given to Daniel and the church is still here. Statements like that have no scriptural backing that I'm aware of, but if you know of any I would like to learn.

The 69th week ends with Jesus' Death, the Church could only be part of the body of Christ after the Sacrifice was offered and Jesus became our once and for all High Priest in heaven. So, Jesus dies, the temple is rent into, Israel is as Dead Men's Bones unto God and Jesus becomes the head of the Church body. Just because Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD doesn't mean they were not already Dead in God's eyes. Israel being brought back doesn't mean they are all of the sudden alive again, just like the lead up to the 70 Ad Events, there has to be a lead up to the 70th week events, if the Church is raptured, and Israel is placed in the land at the same time they probably would not have even survived, the USA because of the Church has helped Israel survive, with no Church the Demonic beings would have undermined them almost immediately. Truman thought of himself as a modern day Cyrus and he cried when told he was seen as this by Israelis. Spigots are not just turned off an d turned on. The 70th week starts when Israel makes THE AGREEMENT with the A.C. (E.U. President IMHO) and you know that !! Yet God had to set the stage, over time. 

On 9/7/2023 at 1:22 AM, Triton57 said:

As for the wedding model, I agree it's very interesting and there's a lot of traditions that seem to be seen like Christ not drinking until we are with Him in the Father's kingdom. Matthew 26:26-29 There are many interesting parallels, but applying seven days to seven years is a stretch for me personally to base prophecy on. I believe we will meet the Lord in the air when He comes to gather us and we go out to meet Him. Matthew 25:1-13 (eliminating chapter separations, this comes just after His coming described in the end of Matthew 24.)

Days in Prophecy are used as years in many instances. It just defeats your pre wrath thesis (SMILE). The 490 days or 70 7s = 490 years right?

On 9/7/2023 at 1:22 AM, Triton57 said:

Again, only shortening the unparalleled tribulation in Judea by saving Israel out of it to the wilderness, not cutting short the antichrist's reign or the dragon's wrath on the rest of the world.

No Prophesied time is shortened, Jesus is merely saying I am going to kill the Best after the Prophesied 42 months. Lets leave it there, its not really a debatable point, people just miss the thrust of what Jesus said imho.

On 9/7/2023 at 1:24 AM, Triton57 said:

Yes, I agree that from the abomination of desolation to Christ's return at Armageddon will be 3 1/2 years, it's clearly stated that is the time to accomplish, consume, finish, done, end, fulfill the scattering of the holy people when all these things will be finished.

 

I did not say that, I said it will be 1290 days from the AoD until the 2nd coming. The Scattering or Conquering of Israel happens 30 days later at the 1260. The 1260 event will be 3.5 years until the 2nd coming of Jesus.

On 9/7/2023 at 1:24 AM, Triton57 said:

That includes both periods of time depicted in Revelation 12. The woman (Israel) is persecuted, then saved out of that persecution, then the dragon finishes his 42 month reign going after the remnant of her seed and Christians outside of Judea. Verse 13 is the time that is cut short, the antichrist's reign and the tribulation against Jews and Christians is not cut short and lasts the whole 42 months or 3 1/2 years.

 

The Remnant is and can only be the Gentile Remnant Church, it can be be Jewish at all. The Dragon is cast down in the middle of the 70th week, thus he chases the woman for 1260 days, BUT God gave her a 30 day head start from the 1290 so he could not get at her. Israel can not run from the Dragon for 1290 days because he's only on earth for 1260 days. Its simple math.

On 9/7/2023 at 1:26 AM, Triton57 said:

If elect are mentioned in the context of right now, it would be the faithful church, the five wise virgins and the dead in Christ up to the point in time of the catching away.

 

If elect are mentioned after the catching away in heaven, it is eternal Israel, the seed of Abraham through Christ consisting of both Jew and Gentile, which at the time of heaven in eternity is likely going to be irrelevant.

 

Thus Matt. 24:29-31 is Israel, not the Church who returns with Jesus.

On 9/7/2023 at 1:26 AM, Triton57 said:

Ultimately the elect can only be eternal Israel, those in Christ. Prophecy is about describing points in space time and I believe context matters in that case.

 

The Church and Israel are NOT ONE...........You do not understand Gal. 3 if you think this. Paul is referring unto the way we come unto Faith by God, not us all being ONE. The proof is where he juxtaposes MALE & FEMALE, can  you not see that? He says there is neither Male nor Female, Gentile (Greek) nor Jew, but we know there are Males AND Females still right? And there are Jews and Gentiles. So, what is the overall point? Well, its easy, Paul is chastising the Galatians for leaving THE FAITH (Spirit) to serve THE LAW (Flesh) then he goes into a diatribe how they came t Christ by faith, not now have foolishly stated serving he LAW. He then  points unto how the PROMISE was the original covenant not THE LAW which was added 430 years later, then he says once the Promise (Jesus) has come the Schoolmaster (Law) is no longer needed. So, what was the Letter about? REREAD IT........Carefully.

Paul is angry, he raised them up in faith and some Jews had come unto them telling them they would not make it into Heaven without keeping The Law of Moses like the "Jews did"!! So, they started foolishly keeping the Law of Moses. 

So, when Paul says there is neither Greek nor Jew, Male nor Female he was not saying there are now NO SEXES (Males nor Females) anymore than he was not saying there are no Jews nor Gentiles, he was saying this STOP TRYING TO BE Jewish in order to make it to heaven !! STOP Keeping the Laws of Moses !! A proper juxtaposition would be this, if someone had told all Females they would have to become Males in order to make it to Heaven Paul would have told them to stop being FOOLISH also, he would have said we are all one in how we come unto Christ by FAITH ALONE, but you do not have to be MALES in order to make it to heaven.

Paul's point was about FAITH, both Jews and Gentiles, Males and Females, Slaves and Freemen are all the same in how we come unto God, and that is by FAITH ALONE.  You and others seem to think he is saying we are all ONE and the same, Paul was not saying that. Israel is Israel, the Church is the Church, Males are males and Females are females.

We have the Elect Wheat who are Israel, where God will set up His Kingdom  Age

On 9/7/2023 at 1:26 AM, Triton57 said:

I don't think that's a fair comparison. The woman of Revelation 12 is clearly symbolic, interpreted as to who she is by Jacob himself in Genesis 37:5-11. The 144,000 have the names of the tribes listed out with numbers for each. Why should I symbolize that plain reading? I have a reason to with the Revelation 12 woman.

 

As is the 144,000, it can not be 144,000 because 1/3 of Israel = 3.5-5 million. Why should you symbolize 10 Virgins? Why the Woman? Because it is obvious God knew He had to put it in symbology else the Romans would have seen it as being treasonous. That is why.

On 9/7/2023 at 1:26 AM, Triton57 said:

The 10 virgins is a parable, a story illustrating a lesson. Yeshua references Himself as the bridegroom and the children of the bridechamber asking why He would fast if He was with them. Another hint at the traditional wedding. All 10 were awaiting the coming of the bridegroom, indicating that the church is the bride waiting for Him. And we learn not all who say Lord, Lord have a relationship with Him as they are shut out of the marriage. A fit parable that makes sense in light of other scripture.

10 is used throughout the bible for Completion. The 10 Commandments, the 10 Plagues, the 10 Kings are not 10 kings they are COMPETE Europe. The 7 Horns equals Divine Completion of God via external Beast Powers. If you are going to understand the BoR you have to understand how God uses numbers. 

On 9/7/2023 at 1:26 AM, Triton57 said:

If I say that the 144,000 is like a parable or a symbol, where is my reference in scripture for that elsewhere? Without that I can dream up whatever I want it to mean and pick and choose obscure references to make a point. But you still have to look at the detail with which it's laid out, even exclusion of the tribe of Dan. There may be a reason why 12,000 from each tribe are picked that carries some symbology, but I haven't found anything but the plain reading to make sense as of yet and it's not really that relevant to my understanding of scripture that they be anything but what they're stated to be. I suppose that they are of Israel and Israel is in the wilderness during the wrath of God and the 144,000 are the only ones explicitly sealed by God and therefore the only ones explicitly protected from the demon locusts of the fifth trumpet makes more sense with a plain reading of it.

1.) Study how God uses numbers.

2.) Study why God needed to use Numbers here and why He needed to use Babylon for The Whole World here.

God is not excluding the Tribe of Dan, he just chose not to use that evil mans name, and its nit relevant anyway, the 144,000 simple is a code for every Jew who repents. Its not going to be exact numbers from each tribe, the 12 just means each trine is Represented in full, not be every person who ever existed from that tribe, but ONE PERSON would be enough SEED to say that tribe lives on. But alas, its 3.5-5 million people who repent. 

God does not CHOOSE who repents, therefore you will no ever have these PERFECT NUMBERS unless its symbology, you should now that.

On 9/7/2023 at 1:30 AM, Triton57 said:

I see how it fits the wheat and tares parable, but I believe the bride are those that go to the marriage at Christ's coming when they are called out to meet Him in the air before the wrath is poured out. I don't see the Revelation 14 harvests as specific to the 144,000, but looking back to the faithful bride of Christ at the time of His coming being "gathered from the four winds of heaven" and meeting the Lord in the air while the remaining time on the earth the grapes are pressed in the wrath of God.

There are two brides, Leah (the Forced/The Church) and Rachel (the Preferred or Israel). The 144,000 = ALL Israel the Rev. 14:14 is the Pre Trib Rapture, and verses 17-20 is the Wicked Grapes placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath.

On 9/7/2023 at 1:30 AM, Triton57 said:

I think we do need to see a connection to the week if there are different opinions from the rest of scripture as to the timing of the harvest, you just showed that point. You say we don't need it to say because we already know it's before the 70th week in your view.

 

The 70th week is about Israel, not the Church. You are straining to make t fit what it will not fit my brother. 

On 9/7/2023 at 1:30 AM, Triton57 said:

I would say it was God's desire for Israel, but He knows the end from the beginning. I don't have a problem seeing echoes of our relationship with Christ in Jewish wedding traditions, but I won't base any part of my understanding of prophecy on it.

 

No, not at all, remember how Jesus taught the disciples to pray? Thy Kingdom Come, Israel was ALWAYS looking forward to a Kingdom Age on earth, not a rapture. You need to separate these factoids out brother. Until you do you are going to be looking for Israel and the Church as ONE ENTITY, and its just not a truth. We are only ONE in how we come unto God, by FAITH ALONE. 

 

[Triton57]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:16 AM, Revelation Man said:

The 5 Virgins who do not make it go through the 70th week, which will lead to them being in  the greatest evert troubles, and maybe to them not making Heaven. Jesus told the Disciples you must endure until the end. When Noah was shut up into the Ark, even before the rains came, those outside the arks fate was already decided, even before the Rains then Floods came. So, if you know 5 of the 10 "Church Virgins" will not make the Rapture then why wouldn't they be warned as a whole that they could be in danger of going through this greatest ever troubles? I mean half the "Church" is not going to make the wedding call, so it sees an appropriate warning. You seem to take the warning and assume the whole church will be in tribulation, when Paul tells us we will be saved from the Wrath of God.

 

I almost agree, I just want to point out in the parable that all we are told is that the foolish virgins are shut out of the marriage when the bridegroom comes. Therefore presupposed notions on when Yeshua will return are placed onto that parable. If you're presupposed to pre-trib, then they go through the 70th week, typically called the 7-year tribulation. If you're presupposed to pre-wrath, then they go through the hour of temptation during the time of great tribulation that starts in the midst of the 70th week.

 

I would agree with the general idea, I just try and define the terms and events separate from sequence to aid in placing them in the most clear order. For instance, the Noah and Lot connection are references not to the confirming of a covenant for one week, but to the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Therefore the destruction of the global flood and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and the whole earth by fire in the end are tied to the wrath of God, not the wrath of the dragon, Satan. This doesn't last for 7 years because as Yeshua points out in the Olivet discourse, the unparalleled time of great tribulation tied to the abomination spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Matthew 24:15-22) takes place before the signs of the sixth seal that heralds the coming of Yeshua and our gathering to Him. (Matthew 24:39-31)

 

Just like Yeshua treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, we see the harlot woman representing Jerusalem who goes after other gods, with a golden cup full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication (going after other gods, in this case the man of sin). In that cup is the blood of the martyrs on which she is drunk and which the nations also drank. Revelation 17:1-6 The symbology of the grapes being crushed in the winepress to produce the wine is similar in both cases. Yeshua treads the winepress and is covered in blood, the harlot and the kings of the earth are drunk on the blood of the martrys, whose blood comes from the winepress of the wrath of the dragon.

 

We are not promised escape from the dragon, indeed we are promised tribulation. We are promised escape from the wrath of God. That wrath comes when Christ does at the day of the Lord, signified by the signs of the sixth seal after the abomination of desolation in the midst of the 70th week.

[Triton57]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:16 AM, Revelation Man said:

If you miss the Rapture there is no other outlet/time to leave earth. When Noah was shut up, no one else got in. Once you do not enter the ark (get Raptured Pre Trib) you will go through the flood (tribulation). The timing tells are not hard to comprehend, you even showed by citing Rev. 19 it can only be Pre Trib but you do not understand it yet. I for the life of me can't understand why people want to intermingle the Churches calling of Service with Israel's calling of Service, Paul clearly states that when the TIME of the Gentiles are COME FULL, then all Israel will be saved, that does not mean every Jew, it means Israel as a Nation is saved, because every tribe has on average, a 1/3 who come to Christ Jesus.

 

I agree once the catching away happens those remaining will be going through the wrath of the dragon, the hour of temptation, and the wrath of God. I don't see anywhere in scripture that says God doesn't deal with Israel and the church at the same time. In fact, I see the opposite. Yes the 70th week is determined for Israel and Jerusalem, but that does not mean it's the only time God is dealing with His people. For instance, I would posit that Israel has been re-gathered from among the nations into the land. Who has taken responsibility for bringing Israel back into the land throughout scripture?

 

Micah 2:12

I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of [the multitude of] men.

 

Zephaniah 3:17-20

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee [is] mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. I will gather [them that are] sorrowful for the solemn assembly, [who] are of thee, [to whom] the reproach of it [was] a burden. Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame. At that time will I bring you [again], even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.

 

Isaiah 56:8

The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather [others] to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

 

Ezekiel 36:22-24

Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

 

Ezekiel 39:25-29

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made [them] afraid. When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; Then shall they know that I [am] the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

 

Historically God is the one who gathered Israel, usually when she repented. However, it would seem the latest regathering was for the Lord's holy name's sake to the fulfillment of His will in the words given to His servants the prophets. Since Israel has been regathered and the nation reborn in a day, all before the 70th week began, it would seem that God's hand is still upon Israel in her blindness, even outside of the 70th week. I think this makes sense because the 70th week is part of God's revealing of His plan to Daniel regarding the "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city." Because this is determined for both the people and Jerusalem, Israel must once again be in the land and Jerusalem for the 70th week to commence. Therefore God must bring Israel back to the land before the 70th week, which means God does deal with Israel and the church at the same time. Our God is a multitasker!

 

I think it is a requirement for pre-trib to force God's dealing with the church and Israel at a distinctly separate time as it allows a line in the sand at the start of the 70th week before which the church MUST leave in order to fulfill this perceived segregation of duties God will perform with His church and His people Israel. Yes Israel is blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles, and that blindness will be lifted when Christ comes in glory and gathers the wise virgins (church) to Him and protects Israel in the wilderness who will be provoked to jealousy. And at which time the Lord will speak comfortably to her in the wilderness and she will once again call Him Lord and He will call her His people. Hosea 2:14-23

[Revelation Man]

7 minutes ago, Triton57 said:

I agree once the catching away happens those remaining will be going through the wrath of the dragon, the hour of temptation, and the wrath of God. I don't see anywhere in scripture that says God doesn't deal with Israel and the church at the same time. In fact, I see the opposite. Yes the 70th week is determined for Israel and Jerusalem, but that does not mean it's the only time God is dealing with His people. For instance, I would posit that Israel has been re-gathered from among the nations into the land. Who has taken responsibility for bringing Israel back into the land throughout scripture?

 

Its not really "The Wrath" of the Dragon, now as he is cast down he is indeed angry, but the DOTL is still God's Wrath against the nation, he casts Satan down and thus gives the peoples their desired king in the Anti-Christ. Notice the Beast is only allowed to go forth conquering on the day the Asteroid hits (DOTL) in Rev. 8. Thus it is God's wrath, if it was Satan's choice he kills all the Jews. Satan gets the world to come against, and even gentiles who repent during the 70th week will have to become Martyrs, at least in region, Europe and the Mediterranean Sea Region, he does not rule over the whole world, however North & South America is the 1/3 that burns, so it will be real bad over here anyway. I mean anyone who thinks the Anti-Christ rules China, Russia and the whole world just are not thinking clearly, its speaking about the whole land being spoken about, the 7 (Mediterranean Sea Region) Headed 10 (E.U.) Horned region only. 

17 minutes ago, Triton57 said:

Historically God is the one who gathered Israel, usually when she repented. However, it would seem the latest regathering was for the Lord's holy name's sake to the fulfillment of His will in the words given to His servants the prophets. Since Israel has been regathered and the nation reborn in a day, all before the 70th week began, it would seem that God's hand is still upon Israel in her blindness, even outside of the 70th week. I think this makes sense because the 70th week is part of God's revealing of His plan to Daniel regarding the "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city." Because this is determined for both the people and Jerusalem, Israel must once again be in the land and Jerusalem for the 70th week to commence. Therefore God must bring Israel back to the land before the 70th week, which means God does deal with Israel and the church at the same time. Our God is a multitasker!

 

I think it is a requirement for pre-trib to force God's dealing with the church and Israel at a distinctly separate time as it allows a line in the sand at the start of the 70th week before which the church MUST leave in order to fulfill this perceived segregation of duties God will perform with His church and His people Israel. Yes Israel is blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles, and that blindness will be lifted when Christ comes in glory and gathers the wise virgins (church) to Him and protects Israel in the wilderness who will be provoked to jealousy. And at which time the Lord will speak comfortably to her in the wilderness and she will once again call Him Lord and He will call her His people. Hosea 2:14-23

God regathers Israel before they repent to have them as a vibrate nation come time for the 70th week. Israel's SERVICE unto God never overlaps the Churches Service. The time of the Gentiles (SERVICE) must come full before Israel repents. So, we are Rapture, THEN Israel's 70th week starts, then the Kingdom Age of 1000 years comes after Israel repents, just before the DOTL falls on mankind. That "Blindness is lifted when the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335, which is 1335 days until all these wonders end via the 2nd coming of Jesus, and 45 days BEFORE the 1290 and 75 days BEFORE the 1260. This is why Israel knows to Flee Judea when the False Prophet (a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus Epiphanes) outlaws Jesus worship (Takes away the Sacrifice) and places the AoD (Image of the E.U. President) up in the temple.

So, yes Ezekiel 37 states that Gid brings Israel back into their land for His names sake (His promise to Abraham) BUT.......something you might have missed, they are indeed a vibrant  body again, but have NO BREATH in them. God breaths that breath onto them later (when they repent during the 70th week).

[Revelation Man]

40 minutes ago, Triton57 said:

I almost agree, I just want to point out in the parable that all we are told is that the foolish virgins are shut out of the marriage when the bridegroom comes. Therefore presupposed notions on when Yeshua will return are placed onto that parable. If you're presupposed to pre-trib, then they go through the 70th week, typically called the 7-year tribulation. If you're presupposed to pre-wrath, then they go through the hour of temptation during the time of great tribulation that starts in the midst of the 70th week.

 

I would agree with the general idea, I just try and define the terms and events separate from sequence to aid in placing them in the most clear order. For instance, the Noah and Lot connection are references not to the confirming of a covenant for one week, but to the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. Therefore the destruction of the global flood and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and the whole earth by fire in the end are tied to the wrath of God, not the wrath of the dragon, Satan. This doesn't last for 7 years because as Yeshua points out in the Olivet discourse, the unparalleled time of great tribulation tied to the abomination spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Matthew 24:15-22) takes place before the signs of the sixth seal that heralds the coming of Yeshua and our gathering to Him. (Matthew 24:39-31)

Again, you are mixing in Israel with the Gentiles, even by using Noah's Ark or Abraham and Lot. God indeed saved them out of the Wrath, but in Noah's case you forget, the waters lasted 7 days before the "Floods came" (SMILE). You see, the Jewish Wedding has a 7 day period before the Wedding Feast, we the Church are in heaven for 7 years then return to earth for the wedding feast which is at "Armageddon". Sodom and Gomorrah was a localized event on one plane, the flood was more than likely a world wide event. 

The 70th week is 7 years, and thus Israel's penance still has 7 years let, there was no church present during the first 483 years of penance, the church will not be here for the last 7 years either. 

50 minutes ago, Triton57 said:

Just like Yeshua treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, we see the harlot woman representing Jerusalem who goes after other gods, with a golden cup full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication (going after other gods, in this case the man of sin). In that cup is the blood of the martyrs on which she is drunk and which the nations also drank. Revelation 17:1-6 The symbology of the grapes being crushed in the winepress to produce the wine is similar in both cases. Yeshua treads the winepress and is covered in blood, the harlot and the kings of the earth are drunk on the blood of the martrys, whose blood comes from the winepress of the wrath of the dragon.

 

We are not promised escape from the dragon, indeed we are promised tribulation. We are promised escape from the wrath of God. That wrath comes when Christ does at the day of the Lord, signified by the signs of the sixth seal after the abomination of desolation in the midst of the 70th week.

The Harlot women represents ALL False Religion of All Time. In that cup is the Blood of the Martyrs of Jesus AND the Saints (meaning Jews and Prophets of old) so the Harlot is on both sides of the cross.

Only those Gentile saved DURING the 70th week will eve be here.