The 7th Trump is the Last Trump

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, transmogrified said:

None of your scriptures disprove what Paul said.. How could they? The same God who inspired Matthew Mark and John to write inspired Paul  to write.

All will be changed at the last trump and yes God is not a God of the dead but of of the living..

 

Paul was not instructed to write prophecy.Paul was not sent to baptise anyone as well.He was sent to preach the gospel.

 

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

 

That's why you can not provide Paul's book of prophecy.He was never instructed to write a book of prophecy.

 

John was specifically instructed to write a book of prophecy about the future.Its called the Revelation of Jesus Christ.So of the two don't agree,you have to except revelation.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[transmogrified]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Paul preached the gospel .. There is no other foundation that any man can lay .. Saying all will not be changed at the last trump is another gospel and is a perversion of it.

   Jesus said repent and believe the gospel - What Paul preached is the gospel.. Saying all will be changed at the last trump is the gospel.. We are saved by believing the gospel.

Paul said you are saved if you hold fast to what he preached.

There is no other gospel- There is no other foundation.. We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets- NOT JUST ON WHAT THE PROPHETS SAID BUT UPON 1) THE APOSTLES 2) THE PROPHETS  and 3) JESUS  CHRIST BEING THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE

THE FOUNDATION PAUL LAID IS NOT JUST PROPHETS!!! ITS NOT JUST APOSTLES!!! ITS NOT JUST JESUS!!! ALL OF THESE IS WHAT CONSTITUTES THE FOUNDATION THAT CANNOT BE SHAKEN..

Believers are just as obligated to follow the apostles as they are to the prophets…as they are to Jesus 

SAYING GOD NEVER TOLD PAUL TO WRITE A BOOK OF PROPHECY IS ABSOLUTELY NO DEFENSE FOR NOT BELIEVING WHAT PAUL WROTE!!! ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!

Believers are just as obligated to follow what Paul wrote as they are to what John wrote or to what Mathew Mark Luke wrote including all the prophets.

Paul didn’t say if any man preaches any other gospel than what I preach let him be accursed except unless a prophet speaks NO NO NO 

HE WAS GIVEN AUTHORITY TO PREACH THE GOSPEL AND ALL BELIEVERS ARE OBLIGATED TO HIM JUST AS MUCH AS TO ALL THE PROPHETS, AND TO ALL THE APOSTLES AND TO JESUS CHRIST.

SAYING JOHN WAS TOLD TO WRITE A BOOK ON PROPHECY IS ABSOLUTELY NO DEFENSE WHATSOEVER FOR REJECTING THE GOSPE AND IT WILL NOT STAND!!! 

 

 

[transmogrified]

10 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The American Holy Ghost that inspired Paul to write inspired John to write..

Sorry that was my quote that accidentally got “American” Holy Ghost in the phrase .. That was an accident 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, transmogrified said:

Paul preached the gospel .. There is no other foundation that any man can lay .. Saying all will not be changed at the last trump is another gospel and is a perversion of it.

   Jesus said repent and believe the gospel - What Paul preached is the gospel.. Saying all will be changed at the last trump is the gospel.. We are saved by believing the gospel.

Paul said you are saved if you hold fast to what he preached.

There is no other gospel- There is no other foundation.. We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets- NOT JUST ON WHAT THE PROPHETS SAID BUT UPON 1) THE APOSTLES 2) THE PROPHETS  and 3) JESUS  CHRIST BEING THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE

THE FOUNDATION PAUL LAID IS NOT JUST PROPHETS!!! ITS NOT JUST APOSTLES!!! ITS NOT JUST JESUS!!! ALL OF THESE IS WHAT CONSTITUTES THE FOUNDATION THAT CANNOT BE SHAKEN..

Believers are just as obligated to follow the apostles as they are to the prophets…as they are to Jesus 

SAYING GOD NEVER TOLD PAUL TO WRITE A BOOK OF PROPHECY IS ABSOLUTELY NO DEFENSE FOR NOT BELIEVING WHAT PAUL WROTE!!! ABSOLUTELY NONE!!!

Believers are just as obligated to follow what Paul wrote as they are to what John wrote or to what Mathew Mark Luke wrote including all the prophets.

Paul didn’t say if any man preaches any other gospel than what I preach let him be accursed except unless a prophet speaks NO NO NO 

HE WAS GIVEN AUTHORITY TO PREACH THE GOSPEL AND ALL BELIEVERS ARE OBLIGATED TO HIM JUST AS MUCH AS TO ALL THE PROPHETS, AND TO ALL THE APOSTLES AND TO JESUS CHRIST.

SAYING JOHN WAS TOLD TO WRITE A BOOK ON PROPHECY IS ABSOLUTELY NO DEFENSE WHATSOEVER FOR REJECTING THE GOSPE AND IT WILL NOT STAND!!! 

 

 

So you believe the book of revelation is a perversion of Paul's gospel of all being changed at one time.

Well at least we have cleared that up.

Revelation 20

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

 

Now do you only see these two verses in revelation as a perversion of Paul's gospel or is the whole book of revelation a perversion to pauls gospel in your eyes?

[transmogrified]

5 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

John was specifically instructed to write a book of prophecy about the future.Its called the Revelation of Jesus Christ.So of the two don't agree,you have to except revelation

You are not accepting what John wrote or what Paul wrote.. John did not say say some saints will be changed at one time and some other saints will be changed at another time..

All of the dead are judged and rewarded at the seventh trumpet - Rev. 11:18 

  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
 

All his servants the prophets , the saints and them that fear his name both small and great are judged and rewarded at the seventh trumpet.. 

These are all the saints being rewarded at the seventh trumpet… John is only adding to what Paul said - not contradicting him.. John does not say there  two resurrections and two raptures for two different groups of saints at two different times… 
THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION - YOU ARE NOT ACCEPTING JOHN OVER PAUL - JOHN IS NOT TEACHING TWO GROUPS OF SAINTS BEING RESURRECTED AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES NOR IS HE TEACHING TWO RAPTURES.. 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

10 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

You are not accepting what John wrote or what Paul wrote.. John did not say say some saints will be changed at one time and some other saints will be changed at another time..

All of the dead are judged and rewarded at the seventh trumpet - Rev. 11:18 

  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
 

All his servants the prophets , the saints and them that fear his name both small and great are judged and rewarded at the seventh trumpet.. 

These are all the saints being rewarded at the seventh trumpet… John is only adding to what Paul said - not contradicting him.. John does not say there  two resurrections and two raptures for two different groups of saints at two different times… 
THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION - YOU ARE NOT ACCEPTING JOHN OVER PAUL - JOHN IS NOT TEACHING TWO GROUPS OF SAINTS BEING RESURRECTED AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES NOR IS HE TEACHING TWO RAPTURES.. 

 

Actually John shows two distinctly different resurections.The first at the beginning of the millinium and the second after the  millinium.Notice,John called the first resurection,the first resurection.

Here is the first

 

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

⁶ Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

 

The second is when the rest of the dead comes to life and the book of life is opened so as to see who's names are written in it.

 

That is found here.

 

 

¹² And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

¹³ And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

¹⁴ And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

¹⁵ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[transmogrified]

9 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe the book of revelation is a perversion of Paul's gospel of all being changed at one time.

Well at least we have cleared that up.

Revelation 20

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

That does not show TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF SAINTS BEING RESURRECTED AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES.. I am not talking about anything with what happens at the end of the MK , and neither was Paul when he was talking about the last trump.. IT IS OBVIOUS THE LAST TRUMP DOES NOT SOUND AT THE END OF THE MK, BUT AT THE SECOND COMING.. So you absolutely can not bring up things that are obviously not in view ..

I am  talking, and Paul is talking about what will happen at the second coming not what happens at the end of the MK.. The resurrection I am talking about is at the end of THIS AGE.. not the one that happens at the end of THE AGE TO COME.

I don’t want to get into who the rest of the dead are until we can get the one, singular, resurrection of all the dead in Christ established.. 

The specific  verse I am talking about that WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE AT THE LAST TRUMP.

I am saying Paul is specifically addressing the believers here of all time being changed at the last trump…

What I am saying is there is not a “ Select group “ of saints that are resurrected at two different times with two different raptures and not all in a moment in a twinkle of an eye at the last trump.

The resurrection at the end of the MK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT- I AM TALKING THE LAST TRUMP - THE SECOND COMING - THE DEAD AND THD LIVING SAINTS BEING CHANGED-

AND NOT ANYTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE RESURRECTION AT THE END OF THE MK..

SO IN SUMMARY - ONLY ONE RESURRECTION FOR THE DEAD IN CHRIST AT THE SECOND COMING AT THE LAST TRUMP ON THE LAST DAY 

NOT - TWO RESURRECTIONS FOR TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF SAINTS AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES AT THE LAST TRUMP AT THE LAST DAY

[WilliamL]

  

On 9/24/2023 at 5:27 AM, Diaste said:

That, and the one and only trump associated with the end of the age, the arrival of Jesus, the gathering, and the meting of wrath is the 7th trump of Revelation, which is the same as the last trump.

On 9/1/2023 at 10:02 AM, Last Daze said:

Not trying to be overly pedantic but the 7th trumpet heralds the descent of Christ to the clouds where He sounds the last trumpet, the trumpet of God.

Out of curiosity, where do you gents place the following trumpets in your sequence of End Time events?

Isaiah 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

Zech. 9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

Note that in the latter event, thus also the former if it is the same event, YHWH will be the one blowing the trumpet, not an angel.

Last Daze, you say that "7th trumpet heralds the descent of Christ to the clouds where He sounds the last trumpet, the trumpet of God." Which actually means, as you wrote it, that the 7th angelic trumpet will be the one before the last trumpet. So you seem to be disagreeing with Diaste.

Edited September 25, 2023 by WilliamL

[transmogrified]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Now do you only see these two verses in revelation as a perversion of Paul's gospel or is the whole book of revelation a perversion to pauls gospel in your eyes?

 Neither- Paul’s Gospel is in Harmony with what John wrote- There is a misunderstanding of what we are talking about .. I am talking about the resurrection of the dead in Christ at the second coming not the resurrection at the end of the MK

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, transmogrified said:

That does not show TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF SAINTS BEING RESURRECTED AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES.. I am not talking about anything with what happens at the end of the MK , and neither was Paul when he was talking about the last trump.. IT IS OBVIOUS THE LAST TRUMP DOES NOT SOUND AT THE END OF THE MK, BUT AT THE SECOND COMING.. So you absolutely can not bring up things that are obviously not in view ..

I am  talking, and Paul is talking about what will happen at the second coming not what happens at the end of the MK.. The resurrection I am talking about is at the end of THIS AGE.. not the one that happens at the end of THE AGE TO COME.

I don’t want to get into who the rest of the dead are until we can get the one, singular, resurrection of all the dead in Christ established.. 

The specific  verse I am talking about that WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE AT THE LAST TRUMP.

I am saying Paul is specifically addressing the believers here of all time being changed at the last trump…

What I am saying is there is not a “ Select group “ of saints that are resurrected at two different times with two different raptures and not all in a moment in a twinkle of an eye at the last trump.

The resurrection at the end of the MK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT- I AM TALKING THE LAST TRUMP - THE SECOND COMING - THE DEAD AND THD LIVING SAINTS BEING CHANGED-

AND NOT ANYTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE RESURRECTION AT THE END OF THE MK..

SO IN SUMMARY - ONLY ONE RESURRECTION FOR THE DEAD IN CHRIST AT THE SECOND COMING AT THE LAST TRUMP ON THE LAST DAY 

NOT - TWO RESURRECTIONS FOR TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF SAINTS AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES AT THE LAST TRUMP AT THE LAST DAY

Sure I can bring up things that are in view.

The resurrection of the dead is being discussed at the end of the millinium.

That is a fact .So there are two different groups being resurected.Tye first group which is resurected at the beginning of the millinium and the later group which is after the millinium.

Now according to Jesus ,his elect will be gatherd to him when he comes.Jis elect being a specific group of his.