Only Those Who Pass Through GT are Resurrected or Gathered.

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

No,it doesn't.the text describes those who followed after the beast from the whole world after the deadly wound was healed.Those who followed after the beast after its deadly wound was healed are in Israel.

 

Revelation 13:3

One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Literally says, "The WHOLE WORLD..."

21 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

 

You believe the entire world commits the sins of one people.Well scripture teaches the world doesn't commit those sins.

 

 

⁵ Thus saith the Lord God; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.

⁶ And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them

I don't believe any such thing.  The reference above says, "...more than the nations...more than the countries..." The nations and the countries commit sin, Israel was worse. Why? Because they followed God and sinned anyway.

 

21 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

According to the word,the people in Jerusalem are worse than the nations around her and commit greater sin than the nations around her.Well,maybe you will believe the word after they are marked and the nations around them are not.

Yes, that's true. Worse doesn't mean the nations were filled with virtue and only Israel wasn't. 

21 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

You don't consider why it will be more tolerable for the cities outside Israel on the day of judgement than the cities inside Israel ,even though they are in close proximity.

 

Luke 10

 

¹³ Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.

¹⁴ But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you.

¹⁵ And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

 

 

You don't consider why it will be more tolerable in the day of judgement for the people outside of israel.than for those inside Israel though they are only a few miles apart.Your not taking these things into account.

I am. Both are guilty. It's worse for the hypocritical, that doesn't absolve the non believer in any way.

You seem to think the world is filled with righteousness and only Israel is a cesspool of rottenness. That isn't the case.

[Diaste]

From what the scriptures say, only those who have gone through GT and faced the beast come to life, or are gathered alive, to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Everyone else waits till the 2nd resurrection at the judgement of the sheep and goats. 

Is that what you all see?

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Literally says, "The WHOLE WORLD..."

I don't believe any such thing.  The reference above says, "...more than the nations...more than the countries..." The nations and the countries commit sin, Israel was worse. Why? Because they followed God and sinned anyway.

 

Yes, that's true. Worse doesn't mean the nations were filled with virtue and only Israel wasn't. 

I am. Both are guilty. It's worse for the hypocritical, that doesn't absolve the non believer in any way.

You seem to think the world is filled with righteousness and only Israel is a cesspool of rottenness. That isn't the case.

No,not Israel was worse.Israel will be worse.Ezekiel wrote a prophecy about the future.Not his past.The things in those chapters are about the time of the end .Not thousands of years ago.

As for the cities of Lebanon.It will be more tolerable for lebanons cities in the day of Judgement than it will be for Israel's cities because not only do the people in Israel commit sins that Lebanon doesn't,Christ sends his disciples to Israel to testify to them and they kill his disciples just as Jesus prophecied.Youcan make the claim that Beirut commits the same sins as Jerusalem,but Beirut is not responsible for ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth.Jerusalem is.

 

ALL THE RIGHTEOUS BLOOD SHED UPON EARTH.ALL OF IT FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME TO THE END.ALL .

ALL.

³⁴ Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

³⁵ That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

³⁶ Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

³⁷ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

³⁸ Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

³⁵ That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

 

Revelation 18:24

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
 

Jerusalem is responsible for ALL the righteous blood shed upon the earth.Not some but all.

 

ALL

Word: paj

Pronounce: pas

Strongs Number: G3956

Orig: including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:--all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

 

That would be in ALL,as in all from beginning to end.ALL

 

And the world does not commit her sins.

Revelation 18:4

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “’Come out of her, my people,’ so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

From what the scriptures say, only those who have gone through GT and faced the beast come to life, or are gathered alive, to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Everyone else waits till the 2nd resurrection at the judgement of the sheep and goats. 

Is that what you all see?

From what scripture says,only Israel reigns over the nations in jesus's land.

 

Isaiah 14:2

Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

 

Kinda hard to avoid the facts.The remnant of Israel is the only people who are faced with the beast.

Anyone outside of Israel is not faced with the beast.Thats why the nations christians in Israel flee for the wilderness from the face of the dragon.He can't reach her outside Israel borders.

 

Revelation 12

¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

The only people in the entire world that face the beast are those who remain in Israel with the beast.The remnant of Israel who keep the comandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Revelation 12

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Literally says, "The WHOLE WORLD..."

I don't believe any such thing.  The reference above says, "...more than the nations...more than the countries..." The nations and the countries commit sin, Israel was worse. Why? Because they followed God and sinned anyway.

 

Yes, that's true. Worse doesn't mean the nations were filled with virtue and only Israel wasn't. 

I am. Both are guilty. It's worse for the hypocritical, that doesn't absolve the non believer in any way.

You seem to think the world is filled with righteousness and only Israel is a cesspool of rottenness. That isn't the case.

Whole world?

You believe the whole world followed the little horn into the pleasant land?

 

Daniel 8:9

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

 

All 7.8 billion going to fit in the pleasant land or is it just some from all over the world who followed the beast into the pleasant land?

[Last Daze]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

From what the scriptures say, only those who have gone through GT and faced the beast come to life, or are gathered alive, to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years.

Everyone else waits till the 2nd resurrection at the judgement of the sheep and goats. 

Is that what you all see?

I don't see the word only in Rev 20:4 or Rev 7:14-15.  They certainly are part of the first resurrection but I don't think its exclusive to them.  According to Paul there are three resurrections unto immortality:

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: [1] Christ the first fruits, after that [2] those who are Christ’s at His coming, [3] then the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Cor 15:22-24

I guess the question is, who are "those who are Christ's"?  Those are the ones who are resurrected at His coming.  There's this definition: 

Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Gal 5:24

So, spiritual as well as physical martyrs?

[Last Daze]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Whole world?

You believe the whole world followed the little horn into the pleasant land?

 

Daniel 8:9

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

 

All 7.8 billion going to fit in the pleasant land or is it just some from all over the world who followed the beast into the pleasant land?

Do you follow Christ?  Are you in His throne room?

You don't have to be physically with someone to follow them.

[Shilohsfoal]

19 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Do you follow Christ?  Are you in His throne room?

You don't have to be physically with someone to follow them.

Being the spirit of God is physically in me and has been since Aug 31 ,1998,I think that qualifies me as physically being in Christ and he in me.

 

But if your saying that everyone in the entire world who follows the beast doesn't move to the pleasant land where the beast is,I would disagree .

If they don't move to the pleasant land with the beast then they didn't follow the beast into the pleasant land where he is.

 

 

Daniel 8:9

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I don't see the word only in Rev 20:4 or Rev 7:14-15.  They certainly are part of the first resurrection but I don't think its exclusive to them.  According to Paul there are three resurrections unto immortality:

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: [1] Christ the first fruits, after that [2] those who are Christ’s at His coming, [3] then the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Cor 15:22-24

I guess the question is, who are "those who are Christ's"?  Those are the ones who are resurrected at His coming.  There's this definition: 

Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Gal 5:24

So, spiritual as well as physical martyrs?

Yes, it's that order that is most interesting. It's a succinct overview, yes?

Christ 1st, obviously.

Then those who are depicted in Rev 7:11-13 and Rev 20:4

Then 1000 years later those who are depicted in Matt 25:31-46, Rev 20:5 and Rev 20:12-15.

I agree with that definition. My question is: What does it mean to "crucify the flesh with its passions and desires."?

What does that look like? Does it look like Rev 20:4? Maybe it looks like Rev 2-3 where overcoming is the attribute that results in the rewards; overcoming the end of the age specifically. Does it look like clean living, long marriage and loyal respectful children? Quite the topic on it's own.

You are correct, there is no specific prohibition barring the in Christ population being gathered at the first resurrection from all who ever lived. 

Rev 20:4 is quite specific on who it is exactly that comes to life and lives and reigns with Christ for 1000 years. And it's not all from all time. Unless one is inclined to think that even those never having faced the beast are a part of those who did not take the mark or worship the beast. Could be but I don't hold that opinion.

One exception is enduring beheading for the testimony of Jesus and the word of God, that would not be limited to the end of the age GT worship or die beastly edict. imo.

I also do not see 

"those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God,

those who had not worshiped the beast or its image,

not received its mark on their foreheads or hands."

as attributes each person must have in order to live and reign with Christ. As long as one is present you're in. I could be wrong.

That is not to say that just because a group with specific attributes is resurrected and gathered at the 2nd coming, that all other believers not gathered at that time are condemned to eternal flame.

At the judgement there are sheep and goats, and Jesus is letting the sheep in for even the smallest act of love; even as the love givers were unaware of what they were doing! Pretty amazing. Such mercy by the King is surely mankind's great hope.

IMO, the sheep and goat judgment of Matt 25 is the same as the GWT judgment of Rev 20.

So then all in Christ are raised at some point. Those that are Christ's at His coming is pretty general. It would seem that if Jesus is inviting you in at the sheep and goats judgment then you are also His; then Christ's people are also raised at the 2nd resurrection.

For certain scripture says:

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

It's not everyone that is resurrected to live and reign with Christ for 1000 years, as has been popular through the years.

And:

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Again it looks like the resurrected come out from within GT at the end of the age at Jesus' 2nd coming. 

That's what I read.