Word of Faith Theology and the New Apostolic Reformation

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

10 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

No, just bored with your desperate need to be right.

Quite a hilarious fellow you are

You must not be too bored seeing you keep replying

[Ray12614]

18 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Concerning the words of our mouth... I think it's odd that people get all bent out of shape if someone says God's promises out loud as though doing so is some sort of cult.  There are things the Lord says in His Word about me as a believer... that HE says... and saying what He says about me out loud is of great benefit to renewing the mind.  Jesus dispatched satan when being tempted by the devil be saying God's Word out loud (Matthew 4:1-11) 

 

I agree with most of what you have said, and will comment on those parts.

I consider myself a WOF man as opposed to a WODUD (Word of doubt unbelief and despair man). When my circumstances give me opportunity, I prefer to voice God's promises instead of voicing my natural tendencies to speak and meditate on the various problems facing me. I don't deny the bad things happening to me, I simply choose to voice God's promises I find in His Word about those problems in a 'God honoring' way, and leave the results with Him. 

There is so much more to obtaining God's promises than just voicing them . . . I has to do with our character, life style of loving God above all else, obedience to the commands of Jesus . . . being people who use those blessings to bless others and furthering the Gospel and the Kingdom . . . . the promises of God are very much a package deal and part of the marvelous Gospel that we all partake of . . . prosperity on any scale small or great being part of it.

As for me . . . . I had to come to a point of asking 'why' I was not obtaining the promises found in God's Word, and my words of doubt and unbelief were the primary cause of it. I have repented of my doubting those promises, and instead choose to trust in the loving Father I belong to and agree with His Word voicing the promises over my problems I encounter.

So, I now am a WOF man . . . as opposed to the WODUD club I used to be in.

Let the criticism begin . . . . LOL

 

[Mr. M]

17 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

I consider myself a WOF man as opposed to a WODUD (Word of doubt unbelief and despair man). When my circumstances give me opportunity, I prefer to voice God's promises instead of voicing my natural tendencies to speak and meditate on the various problems facing me. I don't deny the bad things happening to me, I simply choose to voice God's promises I find in His Word about those problems in a 'God honoring' way, and leave the results with Him. 

You are so right Ray. Speaking God's Word to overcome unclean and oppressive spirits is Christ's proven approach. When I feel anxious or under attack in a similar way, I like to state "God has not given me a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and a sound mind". Demons flee don't they! We are taught to resist the devil, and he will flee. We do this by directly speaking God's truth. Anyone of faith is by definition a true WOF person, because it is the Gospel we preach.

22 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

There is so much more to obtaining God's promises than just voicing them . . . I has to do with our character, life style of loving God above all else, obedience to the commands of Jesus . . . being people who use those blessings to bless others and furthering the Gospel and the Kingdom . . . . the promises of God are very much a package deal and part of the marvelous Gospel that we all partake of . . . prosperity on any scale small or great being part of it.

Here is the greater truth, there is in fact so much more to God's promises than naming and claiming. That word, as you have pointed out is obedience. Ironically, when I speak on the need to be obedient to the apostolic doctrine is when the "works based salvation" people come out in opposition.

25 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

As for me . . . . I had to come to a point of asking 'why' I was not obtaining the promises found in God's Word, and my words of doubt and unbelief were the primary cause of it. I have repented of my doubting those promises, and instead choose to trust in the loving Father I belong to and agree with His Word voicing the promises over my problems I encounter.

Here is where our due diligence is required, and the battle is fought in our minds.

2 Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

What I have found is that beyond changing the confession of my lips, I have to take the battle to the inner man, because Jesus said that out of the storehouse of the heart, the mouth speaks. These is where purity must be found. We guard our hearts by avoiding and overcoming worldly wisdom, obscenity, promiscuity, etc...all of this is taught in the apostolic doctrines. "Bad company corrupts good manners".

We used to speak of following the "full gospel", but even that has gained some negative press because of people that talk the talk, but do not walk the walk. We have to stop finding new ways to label ourselves, such as "I am a born-again Christian" and stick to what we have read in the NT. I am a bond servant of Christ was Paul's self-reference, and he lived that life, as the Lord has instructed us, and above all, live it to the full.

Mark 9:35 And He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them, “If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all.”

Luke 22:27 For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves.

Luke 17:10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’ ”

How is that for words of faith?

[Mr. M]

7 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Quite a hilarious fellow you are

You must not be too bored seeing you keep replying

During my morning meditations, the Holy Spirit brought something to my remembrance that I will share, if not for your benefit, then for the forum at large. You see Stan, the Pentecostal church (another label I suppose) that I attended was in New Orleans, before I moved to Arizona. New Orleans has a huge Roman Catholic population, and there are literally 100's of others like me who were raised in that environment before coming out, usually through a time of prodigal living like me, before the Lord shepherded us back to Himself to a more reformed church home.

I can also say that I have had fellowship with many having a similar testimony on these forums. What I have never heard anyone say is that they left Roman Catholicism because some holier than thou, know it all Tony the Tiger told them "your in a false religion and a cult, they are not GRRRREAT...you need to repent"

As a matter of fact, during my time out in the world, while in the Navy especially, was when I found people bad mouthing the religion I grew up in, or other faiths that I found most offensive, and they played no role in leading me back to the Lord. In fact, I was that much more determined to avoid "religion". I would mockingly refer to myself as a "Taoist Christian".

The people who were instrumental in me coming back to Christ did so by loving on me. They did not waste time speaking condemnation towards anyone, just always spoke about the Lord, and how much He meant to them in giving them life. You may want to give it a rest and remember what the Lord said:

Luke 17:1 Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. 

You claim to be concerned for babes in Christ, but what if they are in a religion that you openly condemn. Do you think that you are helping them or offending them?  This is why I stick to doctrine, presenting scriptures of truth, and prayer that the Lord will lead those who need be to come to that Light.

[Neighbor]

22 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Any insights to share about this theology,

Yes I'll share that God uses even the foolish things, of mankind, to accomplish in many humans that which is good. He does so for those that believe on Jesus as their Lord, God, and personal savior.

Mankind has set way too many a rule calling it theology. God has few rules compared to the numbers beyond counting or accountability developed by mankind in His name. 

So, I do not bother to worry all that much about an emphasis on one aspect of the promises of God over another that any particular group or individual might gravitate to, for God will continue to direct and guide each through the lead  by the Holy Spirit.  

Seems many of us have to taste  more than one barrel of sour grape wine in order to be led and then realize the difference when the Holy Spirit leads to a sample of really good wine.

Concluding: I trust the Holy Spirit to lead YOU just as I trust the Holy Spirit to continue leading me.

 

[Mr. M]

56 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Yes I'll share that God uses even the foolish things, of mankind, to accomplish in many humans that which is good. He does so for those that believe on Jesus as their Lord, God, and personal savior.

Mankind has set way too many a rule calling it theology. God has few rules compared to the numbers beyond counting or accountability developed by mankind in His name. 

So, I do not bother to worry all that much about an emphasis on one aspect of the promises of God over another that any particular group or individual might gravitate to, for God will continue to direct and guide each through the lead  by the Holy Spirit.  

Seems many of us have to taste  more than one barrel of sour grape wine in order to be led and then realize the difference when the Holy Spirit leads to a sample of really good wine.

Concluding: I trust the Holy Spirit to lead YOU just as I trust the Holy Spirit to continue leading me.

 

Love it. As I was sharing above this morning, I never met anyone who changed their ways because someone condemned them and told them what they were doing was wrong. They were led to the Lord by modeling Christlike behavior, and sharing their testimony in a positive way. As to online forums, quoting the scriptures accurately, preferably with 2 or 3 that support one another with regard to some point of truth and letting the Holy Spirit do His work has been my approach. Has that been effective? The Lord knows.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

I think I will make that my next topic for a thread.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Mr. M
added link

[Neighbor]

12 hours ago, SavedOnebyGrace said:

got rid of all Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Savelle, E. W. Kenyon, Oral Roberts, and other books espousing "new age techniques"

Hi, Did you keep a  Robert Schuller Possibility Thinkers Bible ( I still have one)?

[enoob57]

Anything that leads to focus upon this world is not of The Spirit of God nor of God's Word...
1 John 2:15 (KJV)

[15] Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Satan is the prince of this air
Ephesians 2:2 (KJV)

[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

and this world is the total of his temping of us to stray from God...
1 John 2:16 (KJV)

[16] For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

Hi, Did you keep a  Robert Schuller Possibility Thinkers Bible ( I still have one)?

No. I never had one. I was not particularly fond of his teaching style. "The Dake" KJV, as it was referred to was popular at my church, although any KJV was used during service. The more I read it, the more I realized I needed a more reliable commentary than Dake's. That's when I bought Unger's Two Volume Commentary on the Old Testament. Excellent choice but hard to find now. This was forty years ago and I have many Old and New Testament Commentaries, but none better. It's based on the NASB I believe. There's no electronic version available.

Edited September 14, 2023 by SavedOnebyGrace

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

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There is so much more to obtaining God's promises than just voicing them . .

That's very true!

One of the best analogies I heard concerning this was how an automobile works... some people thing cars run on gasoline, but they don't!

No, they run on gas, oil, air, electricity, hydraulic fluid, and engine coolant

If one takes any on of these items out of the mix, the car will quit running.

Our walk with the Lord is similar to that because confessing what God says about us is very important... but things go awry if this is all we are doing.

There are (among other things) things we must be doing in addition to speaking God's Word such as believing, acting like what God says is true, thinking / meditating on what God says, continually giving thanks unto the Lord, sharing the Gospel with others, etc, etc.

There is always a need for balance as an unjust balance is an abomination unto the Lord but a just and right balance is His delight (Proverbs 11:1)  Many who attack speaking God's Word are unbalanced themselves and are purveyors of false doctrines such as calvinism, reformed theology, or catholicism 

There's no doubt that speaking God's Word is needful and very beneficial because after all... it's what the Lord says!

Romans 10:6-8
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

 

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You claim to be concerned for babes in Christ, but what if they are in a religion that you openly condemn. Do you think that you are helping them or offending them?

Affirming and speaking favorably of a false religion is most definitely hurting them and providing opportunity for them to stumble.

Jesus and His Apostles did not go around speaking favorably of the false religious systems of their times and they in fact condemned those systems and told people to come out of them to serve the true Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

So you do what you think is right... I'll not follow any example that speaks favorably of satan's fake religions.  I don't agree with evil and will act in opposition to evil and not to speak favorably of it.

 

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Hi, Did you keep a  Robert Schuller Possibility Thinkers Bible ( I still have one)?

Nothing like hanging on to a little leaven for old times sake!

 

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Anything that leads to focus upon this world is not of The Spirit of God nor of God's Word...

Saying what the Lord says IS... focusing on His Word.

His Word contains instructions and warnings we need to consider while living in this world so we can deal wisely in all the affairs of life while we are here (Joshua 1:8)

Joshua 1:8
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success


 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Stan Murff