WAR IN OCTOBER

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, other one said:

the new city of Jerusalem is 1500 miles high and would be physically impossible with the present Physics of planet earth with just the surface being burned.  Everything has to be new, even  the physical conditions if there is still a planet earth.

I can see it being in a higher dimension where physics changes, but that goes outside Biblical teaching and most people frown on that.

Shabbat shalom, other one.

No, sir. While the New Jerusalem will be a little less than 1,380 miles high, that is not a sufficient reason to think that the physics would be impossible. Everything WITHIN OUR BIOSPHERE has to be new, but only those areas that were PHYSICALLY touched by human beings would have to be renewed.

Let's back-track for a moment: When God first created the heavens (the skies) and the earth, He called it all, with all of its inhabitants, "very good." For the Great God who created it all and who is omnipresent, omnipotent, and eternal to call His Creation "very good," it had to be completely perfect and without defect.

Now, think of what transpired after the Fall and the Flood. The size of the earth did NOT significantly change, and the plants and animals did not change that much. They could now die and decay, but the unwinding of physical systems had to be going on already. Certain things, like eating and digesting, had to be occurring BEFORE the Fall.

Therefore, it's a faulty assumption that the Second Law of Thermodynamics was not already in place. Orbits would still decay, and time would still exist before the Fall. In fact, time is ESSENTIAL for the movement of physical objects in space. It is called a "space-mass-time continuum" for a purpose. Indeed, distance is MEASURED by time and rate of velocity! The formula, d = r x t, was in existence BEFORE the Fall. Furthermore, it will be in existence AFTER the Fire and the re-Creation of the earth and its atmosphere. By simple mathematical analysis, any one of the three units are measured by a relationship between the other two.

The rate of velocity is measured by the distance divided by the time, such as the rate of 60 miles per hour is measured by the distance of 60 miles divided by an hour of time. And, the distance in miles is determined by measuring the distance an object travels at the rate of 60 mph in an hour. An hour is also measured by how long it takes for an object traveling at 60 miles per hour to go a distance of 60 miles. In fact, this relationship makes the manufacturing of clocks possible.

[other one]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, other one.

No, sir. While the New Jerusalem will be a little less than 1,380 miles high, that is not a sufficient reason to think that the physics would be impossible. Everything WITHIN OUR BIOSPHERE has to be new, but only those areas that were PHYSICALLY touched by human beings would have to be renewed.

Let's back-track for a moment: When God first created the heavens (the skies) and the earth, He called it all, with all of its inhabitants, "very good." For the Great God who created it all and who is omnipresent, omnipotent, and eternal to call His Creation "very good," it had to be completely perfect and without defect.

Now, think of what transpired after the Fall and the Flood. The size of the earth did NOT significantly change, and the plants and animals did not change that much. They could now die and decay, but the unwinding of physical systems had to be going on already. Certain things, like eating and digesting, had to be occurring BEFORE the Fall.

Therefore, it's a faulty assumption that the Second Law of Thermodynamics was not already in place. Orbits would still decay, and time would still exist before the Fall. In fact, time is ESSENTIAL for the movement of physical objects in space. It is called a "space-mass-time continuum" for a purpose. Indeed, distance is MEASURED by time and rate of velocity! The formula, d = r x t, was in existence BEFORE the Fall. Furthermore, it will be in existence AFTER the Fire and the re-Creation of the earth and its atmosphere. By simple mathematical analysis, any one of the three units are measured by a relationship between the other two.

The rate of velocity is measured by the distance divided by the time, such as the rate of 60 miles per hour is measured by the distance of 60 miles divided by an hour of time. And, the distance in miles is determined by measuring the distance an object travels at the rate of 60 mph in an hour. An hour is also measured by how long it takes for an object traveling at 60 miles per hour to go a distance of 60 miles. In fact, this relationship makes the manufacturing of clocks possible.

lets just say that I do not agree with your assumptions.

[Retrobyter]

On 10/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Slibhin said:

I'm not going to waste time addressing pseudoarcheological claims.

You obviously know jack squat about Orthodox Jews or the Talmud, because you are incredibly wrong on multiple fronts.

1. The Torah is the law and all other documents, including the Talmud and the rest of the Tanakh are subservient to it.

2. In my reply to JohnD, I noted several times Jesus directly quoted Talmudic teachings. The word "Talmud" means instruction, not the law, because only the Torah is the law. The oldest parts were taught orally from rabbi to student until around 200 AD when, in danger of being lost it was finally written down. The term "Talmud" did not exist in Jesus's time and was simply called the Oral Torah. I've read the four gospels so I know exactly what it says and doesn't.

Shalom, Slibhin.

Actually, it's the word "Torah" that means "instruction." "Talmud" means "study" or "learning." The Law is WITHIN the Torah, and Torah is WITHIN the Tanakh (Torah-Navi'iym-Ketuvah). So, I would think the concept of "study" or "learning" was happening in Yeeshuwa`s day, too, even though the word hadn't taken on the status of a LABEL.

Regarding the four accounts of Yeeshuwa`s life, errantly known as "Gospels," if you know exactly what they say, then you also know that they were written by more than four men.

Matittyahuw ("Matthew"), who was one of Yeeshuwa`s students, wrote one account.

Yochanan Marcus (John Mark), a Jew coming from dispersed Jews to a province of Rome, was likely an aquaintance of Shim`own Kefa ("Simon Peter") and was the writer for Kefa, who dictated his account.

Yochanan ("John") the Beloved was one of Yeeshuwa`s students from the beginning of His offer of the Kingdom.

But, Lukas ("Luke") was a Greek physician who was also an educated man. He talked with MULTIPLE witnesses, ans his account is a COMPOSITE of all the eye-witness accounts he tabulated.

Most know of the original Twelve, but by the end of His offer - that is, when the offer of the Kingdom was rejected by the Sanhedrin - He has HUNDREDS of disciples - students who walked with the itinerant Teacher. Very few were named in these accounts, but more than half are estimated to be women! The ones who were named, for one reason or another, had no husband, whose name would normally be recorded for his wife and/or the whole family.

On 10/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Slibhin said:

3. Less then 10% of fortune 500 companies have a female CEO and that's evidence somehow that men aren't predominant in society. In addition, every single female CEO you worked for has somehow all been bad at their jobs... not a single one was good.

Maybe perhaps you were just bad at your job and didn't like them holding you accountable because of their gender. Maybe you're just jealous they made it and you didn't and would rather blame them and attribute it to feminism instead of your own failings.

4. Show me in the Torah where it says Eve seduced or tricked Adam. I've read it so I already know it doesn't, you're projecting your own misogyny on the narrative.

No, Genesis 3 doesn't say that Chavah ("Eve" [ written as "Εὕα" and pronounced "hyoo'-ah" in Greek, by the way, and transliterated into Latin as "Eve," pronounced "eh'-weh"]) either "seduced" or "tricked" or even "enticed" Adam into sinning. All it says is that she GAVE him the fruit as well, and he ate it. That's all we know from the Scriptures.

On 10/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Slibhin said:

5. Orthodox Jews do not consider themselves above anyone. We don't believe in grace, which is an entirely Christian concept. We believe that anyone, Jew or not, can go to heaven and be righteous before G-d as long as they follow the laws of Noah. We also don't believe in grace because we don't believe in hell, or original sin, or justification by faith.

The Orthodox Jews do know OF "grace," even if that's not what they call it. "Grace" is that which G-D generously provides human beings for which they legitimately should be "gracious" or "thankful." That's what the word means. It is the ABUNDANCE of God's mercies for which we are thankful.

On 10/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Slibhin said:

6. I dont care about Constantine or what he did for Chrstiandom. I will point out he never fully abandoned paganism and had many people killed after his so called conversion.

Very true. Amen.

On 10/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Slibhin said:

There are certainly plenty of arrogant mean spirited Jews out there, just like in any other community because some people are just jerks.

7. TYPING IN ALL CAPS DOESN'T MAKE YOU ANY MORE CORRECT.

8. I'm fully aware or what Karaite Jews are. They have their own teachings similar to the Talmud, and for similar reasons.

Sort of. Actually, Qaraite Judaism (יהדות קראית) is a branch that doesn't believe in the Talmud:

Wikipedia gives us this info:

"Karaites believe that all of the divine commandments which were handed down to Moses by God were recorded in the written Torah without any additional Oral Law or explanation. Unlike mainstream Rabbinic Judaism, which regards the Oral Torah, codified in the Talmud and subsequent works, as authoritative interpretations of the Torah, Karaite Jews do not treat the written collections of the oral tradition in the Midrash or the Talmud as binding."

On 10/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, Slibhin said:

9. I'm aware you and.everyone here does nor believe in the Talmud. I do. I don't believe in Jesus because I don't believe he meets the requirements to be the Messiah. I don't believe in the New Testament because I believe it contradicts the Torah. I would not however denigrate Christians and thier belief in those things, because respect is a two way street and they are human beings.

Orthodox Jews need to understand that there were TWO sets of prophecies about the Mashiyach: Those of Mashiyach ben Yosef, and those of Mashiyach ben David. And, the rabbis at the time of Yeeshuwa`s offer KNEW of these two sets of prophecies!

The prophecies about the Mashiyach ben David (Messiah son of David) say that he will be a conquering, a rescuing, and a reigning Mashiyach as Melekh (King).

The prophecies about the Mashiyach ben Yosef (Messiah son of Joseph), patterned after the Yosef in B'reeshiyt (Genesis), chapters 37-50, say that he would be a suffering and abused and even DYING and RESTORED Mashiyach, much as Yosef was restored to Ya`aqoV ("Jacob") when he found out that his son had NOT been killed by a wild animal, but was second-in-charge in Egypt!

So, it always seemed to the rabbis that they could NOT be talking about the same person! And, there were discussions and arguments about how these two sets were to be both true about G-D's FINAL ANS ULTIMATE Mashiyach.

This is what Yochanan the Immerser was asking Yeeshuwa` before Yochanan was beheaded: "Are you he that should come (are you Mashiyach ben David), or do we look for another (are you Mashiyach ben Yosef and we must still anticipate a Mashiyach ben David yet to come)?" Yochanan was not in the same circles as was Yeeshuwa`. While he was his forerunner to prepare the hearts of the people for his arrival, he did not travel with Yeeshuwa`. So, Yeeshuwa` gave him proof:

Matthew 11:4-6 (KJV)

4 Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: 5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel (the good news about the Kingdom) preached (heralded) to them. 6 And blessed (happy) is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me (shall not be led into sin because of me)."

Lukas' account gives more detail:

Luke 7:18-23 (KJV)

18 And the disciples of John shewed him of all these things (reports of miracles including the restoring of life to a centurion's servant in verses 1-17). 19 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying,

"Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?"

20 When the men were come unto him, they said,

"John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, 'Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?'"

21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. 22 Then Jesus answering said unto them,

"Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel (the good news about the Kingdom) is preached (is being heralded). 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me."

He was FULFILLING the verses about the Messiah son of David, Mashiyach ben David!

Isaiah 29:17-19 (KJV)

17 Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?
18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 35:1-10 (KJV)

1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.
3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart,

"Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."

5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons (lizards), where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called "The way of holiness"; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed (the ones bought back from slavery) shall walk there:
10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Isaiah 42:1-9 (KJV)

1 "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law."

5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

6 "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them."

Isaiah 43:1-13 (KJV)

1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel,

"Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. 2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. 3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. 4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life. 5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; 6 I will say to the north, 'Give up!'; and to the south, 'Keep not back!: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; 7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. 8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 

9 "Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things (who can state your case)? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: OR let them hear, and say, "It is truth."

10 "Ye are my witnesses," saith the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. 13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let (prevent) it?"

Isaiah 52:1-15 (KJV)

1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion;
put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city:
for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem:
loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

3 For thus saith the LORD,

"Ye have sold yourselves for nought (nothing); and ye shall be redeemed (bought back) without money!"

4 For thus saith the Lord GOD,

"My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. 5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed (belittled; treated with contempt)! 6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I!"

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, "Thy God reigneth!"

8 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion. 9 Break forth into joy! sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem!: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem! 10 The LORD hath made bare His Holy Arm (the Messiah) in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation (Hebrew: yshuw`aah!) of our God. [Yeeshuwa`s name means "He will save" or "He will deliver" or "He will rescue!"] 11 Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD. 12 For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the LORD will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.

13 "Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. 14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: 15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

In each of His comings, He will fulfill the two sets of prophecy about the Ultimate Messiah! During His first coming, He fulfilled the prophecies about the Messiah the Son of Yosef, and at His second coming, He will fulfill the prophecies about the Messiah the Son of David. Although, He showed that He COULD fulfill the prophecies about the Messiah the son of David at His FIRST coming! He healed the blind; He healed the deaf; He healed their diseases; He set at liberty those who were oppressed by evil spirits; He raised the dead back to life; and He heralded the good news about the coming Kingdom of God! In fact, they could have had it THEN if they had only accepted Him as God's Messiah! But, they chose to reject HIM; so, He likewise rejected that generation, and all those who likewise reject Him have sided with that generation. And, that is why the Jews have suffered these last two millennia! When, we can WELCOME HIM BACK as God's Anointed, THEN He will return and rescue His people, who according to prophecy will be under an attempt at GENOCIDE by her "neighbors!"

G-D won't allow Israel to perish from the earth, but He SHALL allow them to be beat back until they learn to SUBMIT to G-D's authority!