12 Reasons I Know that I am Eternally Secure (I am a Child of God)!

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

9 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Heb 6:9  But, beloved, we are persuaded of better things for you, and things that accompany salvation, even though we speak like this.

They call that pastoral hope or something er other but it doesn't mean the Lord's warnings are not real and in effect.  There's warnings in God's Word that tell us what NOT to do and that's the Lord's grace giving us a heads up that some things are not acceptable to the Lord

The scriptures warning and instructing us what NOT to do are just as important as the ones telling us what TO do... and obedient children embrace both while disobedient children will not obey God's warnings concerning what not to do.

Typically because those are not the happy verses everyone wants to hear that give folks that warm and fuzzy feeling

The statement Jesus made in Matthew 24:13 is true across the board, not just for abiding IN Christ if going thru the tribulation.

Actually, warnings of what not to do are very positive because they help keep us from being entrapped by the enemy, to avoid his snares. 

This is spoken of in Psalms 91 where the promises mention are only applicable to those abiding under the shadow of the Most High which in the NT is abiding In Christ.




 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Stan Murff

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

5 hours ago, Buzzard3 said:

You need to balance those passages with those that say we are "being saved" and "will be saved", which suggest salvation doesn't happen in an instant, but is an ongoing process.

 

If we are assured of our salvation as soon as we come to Christ, why does Paul warn believers that they can lose their salvation due to sin?  Eg, Gal 5:19-21, 1Cor 9-11, Heb 12:14.

 

If you are assured of your salvation now, why is salvation described as a "hope" in at least twenty verses in the NT?   I don't know of any dictionary that says "hope" means "certainty".

 

On what basis do you claim you're already assured of salvation?  Faith?  If so, how do know you have enough faith to be saved?

I think I balance them quite well actually. The passages that talk about future salvation are talking about our permanent future glorification. The salvation itself happens the moment we believe. We then have God's promise that it will be complete ( glorification ). The passages you quote for loss of salvation have NOTHING to do with salvation. Those same passages have been taken out of context and twisted to support loss of salvation, but they aren't even talking about salvation. 

Yes hope can and does sometimes refer to certainty. The context of the passage makes it more clear. Paul hoped for his future salvation, BUT he also knew he already had it. What he really hoped for was the glorification upon death of being in Heaven and Christ's presence. 

I know I am saved ( past, present, & future ) because of passages like Romans 10:9-13 & John 10:28-29 & 1 John 5:13 among dozens of others. Jesus said the faith of a mustard seed is enough, so its not the amount of faith that is important. It is the object of our faith. My faith is in Christ and his work on the cross. 

[steve morrow]

CONTEXT  

 

ACTS 3:22  for moses truly said unto fathers --- a prophet shall the LORD  YOUR  GOD  raise up unto of your brethren --- like unto me  HIM  shall you hear in all things  --whatsoever--  HE  shall say unto you 

--3:23--  and it shall come to pass that -- EVERY SOUL -- WHICH WILL NOT HEAR THAT PROPHET --- SHALL  BE  DESTOYED  FROM  AMONG  THE  PEOPLE ---

 

2 TIMOTHY 2:19  nevertheless the foundation of  GOD  standeth sure ---having this seal---  THE  LORD  KNOWETH  THEM  THAT  ARE  HIS  ---  LET  EVERYONE  THAT  NAMMETH  THE  NAME  OF  CHRIST  DEPART  FROM  INIQUITY  ---

ROMANS 10:13   for whosoever shall call upon --- THE  NAME  OF  THE  LORD  SHALL  BE  SAVED ---

ACTS 3:26  unto you first  GOD  having raised up  HIS  SON  JESUS  sent  HIM  to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities

 

COLOSSIANS 1:19  for it pleased  THE  FATHER  that in  HIM  should  all  fulness dwell

--1:20-- and having made peace through the blood of the cross  --BY  HIM-- to reconcile all things to himself  --BY  HIM  I  SAY--  whether they be things in earth or things in heaven 

--1:21-- and you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works yet now hath  HE  reconciled 

--1:22-- in the body of  HIS  flesh through death to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in  HIS  sight

--1:23--  --** IF  YOU  CONTINUE **--   in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from --form the hope of the gospel-- which you have heard and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven whereof I paul am made a minister

 

LUKE 13:18  then said  HE  unto what is the kingdom of  GOD  like and whereunto shall I resemble it 

--13:19-- it is like a grain of mustard seed --- which a man took and cast into his garden  ---  and it grew and waxed a great tree  ---  and the fowls of the air lodged in the  --  branches of it  --

2 THESSALONIANS 1:3  we are bound to thank  GOD  always for you brethren as it is meet because --- that your faith groweth exceedingly --- and the charity of everyone of you all toward each other aboundeth

--1:11--  wherefore also we pray always for you that our  GOD  would count you --worthy-- of this calling and fulfil all the good pleasure of  HIS goodness --- and the work of faith with power 

1 TIMOTHY 4:6  --IF  THOU  PUT  THE  BRETHREN  IN  REMEMBRANCE  OF  THESE  THINGS  --- thou shalt be a good minister of   JESUS  CHRIST  NOURISHED  UP  IN  THE  WORDS  OF  FAITH  AND  OF  GOOD  DOCTRINE  WHEREUNTO  THOU  HAST  ATTAINED 

 

JOHN 10:28  AND  I  GIVE  UNTO  THEM  ETERNAL  LIFE  AND  THEY  SHALL  NEVER  PERISH  NEITHER  SHALL  ANY  MAN  PLUCK  THM  OUT  MY  HAND 

 

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are spirit and they are life 

--6:64-- but there are some of you that believe not for  JESUS  knew from the beginning who they were that believed not and who would betray  HIM 

--6:65-- and  HE  said  therefore said I unto you that no man can come unto me except it were given unto him of  --MY  FATHER--

 

--6:66--  FROM  THAT  TIME  MANY  OF  HIS  DISCIPLES  WENT  BACK  AND  WALKED  --NO  MORE  WITH  HIM--

--6:67--  THEN  SAID  JESUS  UNTO  THE  TWELVE  ---  WILL  YOU  ALSO  GO  AWAY  ---

 

--6:68--  THEN  SIMON  PETER  ANSWERED  HIM  LORD  TO  WHOM  SHALL  WE  GO  --- THOU  HAST  THE  WORDS  OF  ETERNAL  LIFE ---

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

They call that pastoral hope or something

I'm sure "they" do, but I'm with Jude:

Jud 1:3  Beloved, although I made every effort to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Jud 1:3  Beloved, although I made every effort to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints.

Yeah, but that doesn't sound very OSAS
to be having to contend for the faith!

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Stan Murff said:

Yeah, but that doesn't sound very OSAS
to be having to contend for the faith!

 

Hold that thought, because we can know and be sure that Christ has redeemed us. I once was lost but now am found.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

I once was lost but now am found.

And, if you turn away from the Lord and choose to do sinful things... you are no longer abiding in Christ and are no longer found.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

So, the thing to do is NOT do sinful things, and if one does they should confess it to the Lord as being sin and STOP doing it!

Only then is fellowship with the Lord restored... as 1 John 3:6 states: whoever abides IN Christ does not sin!

 

[Michael37]

7 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

And, if you turn away from the Lord and choose to do sinful things... you are no longer abiding in Christ and are no longer found.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

So, the thing to do is NOT do sinful things, and if one does they should confess it to the Lord as being sin and STOP doing it!

Only then is fellowship with the Lord restored... as 1 John 3:6 states: whoever abides IN Christ does not sin!

 

Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine!

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine,

Heir of salvation, purchase of God,

Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

21 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine!

Oh what a foretaste of glory divine,

Heir of salvation, purchase of God,

Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood.

All true... UNLESS you start doing sinful things!.... Then, not so much.

Unless of course you confess your sin and forsake it as the Lord instructs us to do in His Word..

When you realize you have sinned... do you confess it to the Lord and forsake the sin?

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

 

[Buzzard3]

21 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I think I balance them quite well actually.

A balanced approach to interpreting Scripture doesn’t include effectively ignoring any words and passages of Scripture that contradict a preferred doctrine.   

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The passages that talk about future salvation are talking about our permanent future glorification.

Yes, the passages refer to salvation ... ie, to being "saved" ...  getting to Heaven.

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The salvation itself happens the moment we believe.

The road to salvation begins the moment we believe ... the salvation itself happens after we die, after we are judged worthy of eternal life by Christ.

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We then have God's promise that it will be complete ( glorification ).

God doesn’t promise that everyone who comes to faith will be saved.  In fact, Jesus said in the parable of the sower that some will "believe for a while" and then fall away (Matt 13:21).  You seem to contradict Jesus by claiming that everyone who believes is instantly issued with an irrevocable ticket to Heaven.

The promise of salvation is conditional -  on continuing to abide in Christ  - ie, faith and works (James 2:24).   Plenty of people who come to faith fall away into apostasy - some of them even become atheists.  As for works, I've already quoted verses that state that sin can land believers in hell.   Have you never read these words in Scripture:  "he who endures until the end will be saved"?

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The passages you quote for loss of salvation have NOTHING to do with salvation. Those same passages have been taken out of context and twisted to support loss of salvation, but they aren't even talking about salvation.

Surely you jest!  In those passages I quoted (Gal 5:19-21, 1Cor 9-11, Heb 12:14), Paul warns believers about how their sins can prevent them from entering the kingdom of heaven ... and you claim they have "nothing to do with salvation???  What are you talking about?

It's a pity you have to ignore entire passages of Scripture to accommodate your erroneous doctrine.

Furthermore, you need explain your accusation that I've taken those passages "out of context and twisted" them.  

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hope can and does sometimes refer to certainty. The context of the passage makes it more clear.

Sounds like oxymoronic nonsense to me.  Please provide an example of hope referring to certainty in the Scriptures.  

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Paul hoped for his future salvation, BUT he also knew he already had it.

Firstly, that's oxymoronic nonsense - if you know for certain that something is going to happen, you don't have to hope it will happen.   What you're doing is twisting the meaning of the word "hope" to accommodate your erroneous doctrine.  Twisting the plain meaning of words and even entire passages of Scripture are sure signs of a false doctrine.

Secondly, Paul expressed his opinion that he was saved only when he knew (by revelation) that his death was imminent (2Tim 4:6-8) ... as opposed to earlier in his life he said, "I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me.  Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God."  (1Cor 4:3-5)

In others words, (unlike you) Paul did not judge himself saved until the very end of his life (and even then that knowledge was given to him by special revelation).

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Jesus said the faith of a mustard seed is enough

Jesus said no such thing - he said, "The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed".

The NT doesn't say anything about how much faith is enough, and the fact is, you have no way of knowing if you have enough faith to be saved. 

 You can consider yourself already saved if you like, but your opinion is irrelevant, because only Christ can declare you saved.  That's why the NT describes salvation as a "hope" in at least twenty verses - our salvation depends entirely on how Christ will judge us at the end of our lives.  Do you think Christ will give two hoots about your opinion on the matter?

Edited September 25, 2023 by Buzzard3