Eternal Salvation – From the Perspective of Life

[Vine Abider]

Bothers & Sisters in Christ - As we’ve been conversing a bit about the “once saved – always saved” (OSAS) teaching in various recent threads (and actually it’s a significant ongoing discussion on the Worthy forum), I’ve been thinking and considering this matter.  Various people have brought up good points, both pros and cons to OSAS. This has me thinking about how salvation looks from God’s side, in light of the matter of life.  (FYI: I mentioned this in a few of the OSAS threads, but I wanted to more fully elaborate, with verses, in this new thread. And sorry for the longer post, but it seems necessary and hopefully is an easy read and a blessing.)

God is all about life! He is the sole Creator of life.  He made the earth to team with an abundance of life.  And Jesus said in John 10:10, “I am come that they might have life and have it to the full” and in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth and the life” and He also said, and “I am the resurrection and the life.”  His purpose was to defeat death and bring life back to man. So let’s look at the matter of our salvation from this  perspective – the perspective of life.   (presented in three sections + summary/concluding thought)

A) We should all agree on the finality and efficacy of that what Christ did on the cross.  Right before He gave up His life He loudly proclaimed, “It is finished!”  Those words were not spoken lightly and are very far reaching indeed!  So what was finished and what happened as a result of Christ’s death and resurrection? 

Here are a couple verses regarding what happened at that wonderful event (i.e., beyond paying the ultimate penalty for our sin):

“The Last Adam (Christ) was made a life-giving Spirit.”  1 Cor 15:45b

“Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone.  But if it dies, it brings forth much fruit.” John 12:24  (Jesus speaking of His crucifixion and what would be produced)

B) Jesus spoke several times about the importance of humans being “born-again.”  When something is born a new life occurs.  He told us, “Unless one is born-again, they cannot see the kingdom of God.”  (John 3:3) Therefore, as Christians we know that unless someone receives Christ into them, they cannot be born-again. Therefore, they cannot receive God's eternal life and see the kingdom.

Here are some verses related to the matter of being born-again and what that means:

“Born-again, not of corruptible seed . . .” 1 Peter 1:23

“Whoever is in Christ is a new creation.  Old things have passed away – behold the new has come!” 2 Cor 5:17

“I give them eternal life, they shall never perish and no one snatches them out of My hand.” John 10:28

“That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” John 3:6

“I will put My Spirit within you.”  Ezekiel 36:27

“He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.” 1 Cor 5:17

“I am in my Father, and you are in Me and I am in you.” John 14:20

"Whoever is born of God . . . His seed (‘sperma’ in Greek) remains in Him” 1 John 3:9

 “Conformed to the image of the Son of God . . . the Firstborn” Rom 8:29

“Christ in you, the hope of glory.”  Col 1:27

C)  Another significant thing Jesus did was to make the Father’s name known to His disciples. In the Old Testament the name of Father was used for God very rarely.  In the New Testament the name of Father is used abundantly, and Jesus was the initiator of speaking of God as Father, and this is in relationship to both Himself and His disciples.

Here are just a few verses related to God being our Father and His relationship with us:

“[Father] I have made Your name known to them.” John 17:6

“I am ascending to be with My Father and your Father.” John 20:17

“Our Father, which is in heaven . . .”  Matt 6:9

“Bringing many sons to glory.”  Heb 2:10

“Now we are children of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be . . . we shall be like Him.” 1 John 3:2

“It is of God that you are in Christ Jesus.” (not our doing) 1 Cor 1:30

Summary of A, B & C: Putting the verses in these three sections together, we get a picture of a loving Father who desires to have many children. Christ said He came that we might have life, and in order to do this, Christ first had to pay the ultimate price for our sin.  And then, in resurrection He became a life-giving Spirit that could be received into those who accepted Him.  As per 1^st Corinthians 6:17, His Spirit became joined to our spirit and we were born-again of incorruptible seed (sperma).  Now we have His very life! The old was done away with (old self & life was crucified in Christ) and now we are a new creation in Him - “Behold I make all things new!”  Just like in the rest of God's nature, what is born of God the Father, cannot be unborn. 

My concluding thought is that the title of father is given to someone who has offspring, or in other words, gives life and existence to another.  As humans, we father children who possess our biological life and many of our attributes – they are born and become our children.  We then love and care for them so that they may grow in life effectively.  At some point our children may become very rebellious and even seek to disown us as being their father or disavow they even possess our life as children.  However, we know it’s probably a phase they are going through, and we continue to look out for them and care for them.  This care may mean they need some discipline for their good, so they may get back on track toward growing and becoming mature, productive and loving adults themselves.  No matter how rebellious they become, they are always still our children with our life in them, and we would never think of killing them if they misbehave, but rather correct them to grow properly.  If this is the case with us, imperfect/fallen humans as we are – how much more is our infinite, loving heavenly Father – the giver of life!?

“I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

“Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!”

Hebrews 13:5 & 2 Corinthians 9:15

[Michael37]

29 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

“I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Indeed, but that isn't the problem.

[AnOrangeCat]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

No matter how rebellious they become, they are always still our children with our life in them, and we would never think of killing them if they misbehave, but rather correct them to grow properly.  If this is the case with us, imperfect/fallen humans as we are – how much more is our infinite, loving heavenly Father – the giver of life!?

I had a similar thought regarding my cats. The current one loves chewing on electrical cords every now and then which causes me no end of frustration and worry. Much like sin it calls for discipline, because left unchecked and again like sin, it would lead to death. I thought about that and how as the one giving the discipline there's a line to walk. Too soft and it's ineffective, too hard and it could be damaging physically and damage the relationship in the process. It really gave me some appreciation for what we put God through and the similar but higher position He has in relation to us.

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Summary of A, B & C: Putting the verses in these three sections together, we get a picture of a loving Father who desires to have many children. Christ said He came that we might have life, and in order to do this, Christ first had to pay the ultimate price for our sin. 

I don't feel like I have a whole lot to add to OSAS so I'm not going to go deeply into that but I feel like this part of your summary is really part of the core narrative of the Bible. Humanity messed up in the garden but God still wants reconciliation and provided Jesus for that purpose. That said there's an addendum to keep in mind. God has principles and isn't ruled by His desires. In Genesis 6:6 we see God grieving over the state of humanity to the point that it it says He regretted making them. Jesus prayed that the cup would pass from Him but was obedient to God's will despite that desire. It works to our benefit that God sticks to His promises instead of throwing up His hands in frustration and leaving us to our own devices or just destroying us. But it's also important to keep in mind that many of His promises are conditional. Unless we stick to the terms laid out we may not always get what He desires to give us.

[Neighbor]

If Romans 8 is correct, then is there any such thing as once saved?

[Dennis1209]

Before I share some thoughts, the Lord does not send anyone to Hell; we send ourselves. God made a way to escape what we deserve and the penalty for sin. Through our free will and choice, we can choose to become the children of God and escape His judgment.

Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [emphasis mine]

As you rightly point out, we have the opportunity for correction by our earthly parents and the Lord to repent (change our beliefs, conduct, actions, and eternal destiny) on this side of eternity. At our last heartbeat, our future is set in concrete and unchangeable.

Romans 9:11 (KJV) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

I am unsure if this topic is OSAS, eternal life, or Christian discipline. Still, several theological perspectives argued that election, omniscience, predestination, free will, justification, and sanctification would have to enter the discussion, but much too long.

Rather than comment on my thoughts, I have asked myself a series of questions trying to answer them:

·         Is eternal life offered to everyone, or only an elect few?

·         Is God a respecter of persons, loving and favoring some more than others?

·         Does God know from before the foundation of the world (omniscience) who will be saved and who will not? Therefore, they are the called, and the elect and saints.

·         If given eternal life, is it conditional? Can it be taken back? If taken back, was it eternal to begin with?

·         Once the Holy Spirit indwells us, will He leave us for any reason (Heb. 6:), or can we be re-saved once again?

·         Can or do WE hold on and secure our Salvation? Can WE or anyone else pluck us out of God’s hand?

I believe the apostle John nicely sums up questions I have studied and asked:

John 1:12 (KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [emphasis mine]

[luigi]

With the understanding that salvation is spiritual; they who then want to be saved, want to be saved from this world and its carnal inclinations. Someone who wants and continues living for their flesh, does not in their heart truly want salvation from their carnal inclinations, and therefore is not, and has not been saved from their sins. 

In Revelation 14 we see mankind likened to two harvests of fully ripe grapes. The first batch of grapes harvested are the spiritually full good grapes, while the second batch of grapes are the carnally full bad grapes.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by luigi

[Vine Abider]

10 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Indeed, but that isn't the problem.

Departing from the faith does not mean that they cease to be God's children with His life in them - they are just misbehaving children who need correction.

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Bothers & Sisters in Christ - As we’ve been conversing a bit about the “once saved – always saved” (OSAS) teaching in various recent threads (and actually it’s a significant ongoing discussion on the Worthy forum), I’ve been thinking and considering this matter.  Various people have brought up good points, both pros and cons to OSAS. This has me thinking about how salvation looks from God’s side, in light of the matter of life.  (FYI: I mentioned this in a few of the OSAS threads, but I wanted to more fully elaborate, with verses, in this new thread. And sorry for the longer post, but it seems necessary and hopefully is an easy read and a blessing.)

God is all about life! He is the sole Creator of life.  He made the earth to team with an abundance of life.  And Jesus said in John 10:10, “I am come that they might have life and have it to the full” and in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth and the life” and He also said, and “I am the resurrection and the life.”  His purpose was to defeat death and bring life back to man. So let’s look at the matter of our salvation from this  perspective – the perspective of life.   (presented in three sections + summary/concluding thought)

A) We should all agree on the finality and efficacy of that what Christ did on the cross.  Right before He gave up His life He loudly proclaimed, “It is finished!”  Those words were not spoken lightly and are very far reaching indeed!  So what was finished and what happened as a result of Christ’s death and resurrection? 

Here are a couple verses regarding what happened at that wonderful event (i.e., beyond paying the ultimate penalty for our sin):

“The Last Adam (Christ) was made a life-giving Spirit.”  1 Cor 15:45b

“Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone.  But if it dies, it brings forth much fruit.” John 12:24  (Jesus speaking of His crucifixion and what would be produced)

B) Jesus spoke several times about the importance of humans being “born-again.”  When something is born a new life occurs.  He told us, “Unless one is born-again, they cannot see the kingdom of God.”  (John 3:3) Therefore, as Christians we know that unless someone receives Christ into them, they cannot be born-again. Therefore, they cannot receive God's eternal life and see the kingdom.

Here are some verses related to the matter of being born-again and what that means:

“Born-again, not of corruptible seed . . .” 1 Peter 1:23

“Whoever is in Christ is a new creation.  Old things have passed away – behold the new has come!” 2 Cor 5:17

“I give them eternal life, they shall never perish and no one snatches them out of My hand.” John 10:28

“That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” John 3:6

“I will put My Spirit within you.”  Ezekiel 36:27

“He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.” 1 Cor 5:17

“I am in my Father, and you are in Me and I am in you.” John 14:20

"Whoever is born of God . . . His seed (‘sperma’ in Greek) remains in Him” 1 John 3:9

 “Conformed to the image of the Son of God . . . the Firstborn” Rom 8:29

“Christ in you, the hope of glory.”  Col 1:27

C)  Another significant thing Jesus did was to make the Father’s name known to His disciples. In the Old Testament the name of Father was used for God very rarely.  In the New Testament the name of Father is used abundantly, and Jesus was the initiator of speaking of God as Father, and this is in relationship to both Himself and His disciples.

Here are just a few verses related to God being our Father and His relationship with us:

“[Father] I have made Your name known to them.” John 17:6

“I am ascending to be with My Father and your Father.” John 20:17

“Our Father, which is in heaven . . .”  Matt 6:9

“Bringing many sons to glory.”  Heb 2:10

“Now we are children of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be . . . we shall be like Him.” 1 John 3:2

“It is of God that you are in Christ Jesus.” (not our doing) 1 Cor 1:30

Summary of A, B & C: Putting the verses in these three sections together, we get a picture of a loving Father who desires to have many children. Christ said He came that we might have life, and in order to do this, Christ first had to pay the ultimate price for our sin.  And then, in resurrection He became a life-giving Spirit that could be received into those who accepted Him.  As per 1^st Corinthians 6:17, His Spirit became joined to our spirit and we were born-again of incorruptible seed (sperma).  Now we have His very life! The old was done away with (old self & life was crucified in Christ) and now we are a new creation in Him - “Behold I make all things new!”  Just like in the rest of God's nature, what is born of God the Father, cannot be unborn. 

My concluding thought is that the title of father is given to someone who has offspring, or in other words, gives life and existence to another.  As humans, we father children who possess our biological life and many of our attributes – they are born and become our children.  We then love and care for them so that they may grow in life effectively.  At some point our children may become very rebellious and even seek to disown us as being their father or disavow they even possess our life as children.  However, we know it’s probably a phase they are going through, and we continue to look out for them and care for them.  This care may mean they need some discipline for their good, so they may get back on track toward growing and becoming mature, productive and loving adults themselves.  No matter how rebellious they become, they are always still our children with our life in them, and we would never think of killing them if they misbehave, but rather correct them to grow properly.  If this is the case with us, imperfect/fallen humans as we are – how much more is our infinite, loving heavenly Father – the giver of life!?

“I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

“Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!”

Hebrews 13:5 & 2 Corinthians 9:15

Nice. It goes straight to the foundation.

Contemporary Christianity speak much about faith. But when it comes to nailing it down they always revert to works. The reason for this is that a PLACE is offered. The Christian aspires to go to heaven - a PLACE. If he is weighed in the scales of justice and found wanting, he goes to hell - PLACE. When asked for scriptures about this, obscure scriptures with wording that does not even approach their doctrine are pushed forward.

But in the direct teaching of the New Testament a man saved avoids a condition of LIFE called"the Second Death". The Second Death is a concept stemming from Matthew 10:28 where the Lord promises a double death administered by Him personally. And the concept of "Second Death" is used interchangeably with the Greek word we render as "Perdition". The Greek language authorities tell us that "perdition" is not annihilation, or sensory cessation like physical death. The word mean "exquisite lack of well-being".

Contrariwise, the Lord sells the greatest enjoyment as LIFE. The deal is, in Matthew 10:39 and 16:25, that amn who is prepared to lose his LIFE representing Christ will gain it is the next age. And the word used in the Greek is "Psuche" - not "zoe" That is, the joy of the reward of the Kingdom is to do with his "SOUL-LIFE". The soul of man is made of mind emotions and will. The enjoyment promised for entering - NOT HEAVEN - but Christ's Kingdom that is set up on earth to bring heaven's rules to earth, is BLISS - a function of the SOUL.

But that is man's affair. What about God? He is the creator and designer of man. He wants something too. And what He wants is recorded in Genesis 1:26-28 and Romans 8:29. God wants an EXPRESSION of Himself. The visible creature should show off and display the invisible God for His glory's sake. And so we leave Matthew and the Kingdom of LIFE, and approach John which is all about getting God's Life into man (Jn.20:30-31). While "psuche" is for man's delight, "zoe" is for God's delight. A man is merely a human. But when he is saturated with God's life he can behave in another dimension. So John 7:37–39 presents us with the consequences of having God's Holy Spirit IN us.

37  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Both God and man find their fulfillment in LIFE - NOT A PLACE.

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Departing from the faith does not mean that they cease to be God's children with His life in them - they are just misbehaving children who need correction.

As I see it, humanity is God's children, made in His image. I categorize them into three groups.

·         Those who accepted the Lord as their personal savior have "saving faith." They love the Lord and try to please Him by obeying His commandments, living a righteous life, depending on and trusting Him alone, and are the salt and light.

·         Those Christians that backslide are cleaving to what this world offers. Jesus takes a back seat to this world's concerns, wants, and cares.

·         The final group is described in Ephesians 5:6 as the children of disobedience, the unsaved.

Ephesians 5:6 (KJV) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Proverbs 14:12 (KJV) There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. [group #3]

Christians can be tested, tempted, tried, and corrected; we can be persecuted and suffer tribulation (as a pre-tribber, not THE Tribulation). We are not subject to God's eternal wrath, which was paid once and for all on the cross.

Christianity is not a denomination or religion; this makes it unique among all other religions. It is a personal relationship and trust in One Person, Jesus Christ. It is accepting, professing, and believing the Gospel and the core tenants of our faith.

Suppose someone thought 72 virgins sounded pretty good and converted from Christianity to Islam. Or they walked away from Christianity because they were disillusioned?

I contend they never possessed "saving faith" to begin with. Those saved that squandered their opportunities backsliding, such as the parable of the Prodigal Son and myself. I take personal comfort, and this verse has special meaning to me:

Philippians 1:6 (KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Of course, it was God who had produced their transformed lives by the work of regeneration. Even though Paul rejoiced in the Philippians’ generous gift and their evidences of spiritual growth, his confidence did not rest ultimately on them but on God, who would preserve them and enable them to reach the goal. The “good work” refers to the salvation begun at their conversion. God not only initiates this salvation, but continues it and guarantees its consummation at the glorious coming of Jesus Christ, which will vindicate both the Lord and his people. Nothing in this life or after death can prevent the successful accomplishment of God’s good work in every Christian.^[1]

 

 

---

^[1] Barker, Kenneth L. Expositor’s Bible Commentary (Abridged Edition: New Testament). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1994. Print.

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Departing from the faith does not mean that they cease to be God's children with His life in them - they are just misbehaving children who need correction.

No faith = No access to the Grace of God, as per the illustration.

(Rom 5:2)  through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

(Eph 3:12)  in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

(Heb 11:6)  But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.