12 Reasons I Know that I am Eternally Secure (I am a Child of God)!

[Vine Abider]

8 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

Yeah and purgatory is false doctrine not supported by God's Word!  If it were possible for man to atone for his own sin, Jesus would not have been sent to the Cross at all.

Yer not thinking on converting to catholicism are you?

It's even easier to get out of sin over there, just say a couple of hail marys and throw a few dollars in the offering plate to cover the expense of one's "indulgences" which is what the catholics call rebellion unto the Lord.

Back in my partying days, I knew drug addicts and dealers that were catholic and they knew they were doing wrong, but they believed in error that they could spend a little time in "sinners jail" (purgatory) to pay for their sins and "mother mary" would instruct Jesus to let them in to Heaven after they paid paid their dues.

satan loves this sort of teaching! 


 

That's a fine example of a Strawman argument: distorting an opposing position into an extreme version of itself and then arguing against that extreme version.  (see here: https://www.grammarly.com/blog/straw-man-fallacy/)

Here is what these three views of eternal salvation are about (copied from previous post, which I don't think you addressed). It seems you see this whole eternal salvation argument is just between two of the following views:

1. Once save always saved, with a license to sin (what you seem to think I believe)

2. Once saved there is a possibility of loosing that salvation, because of sinful living (what I think you believe)

But Stan, what some of us have been trying to relate to you is this: we see in scripture a third view actually portrayed (which goes a long way in reconciling views #1 and #2).  The 3rd one is:

3: Eternal life as children of God, however He will judge believer's works righteously* (what I actually believe)

* and this judgement of a believer's works might be quite severe to one who squandered the grace they were given by living in sin or disobedience to God

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

But none of that matters if one can simply spend some time in sinners jail to "pay for their own sin".... we can all live sinful lifestyles and it's all good right?

Unless you are already having doubts about your new found belief in purgatory?

Before you were saying Jesus paid for our sin... now apparently sinners can atone for their own sin in purgatory.

This is why I was asking if you were taking a close look at the catholic religion thinking about joining up with those people.

Whatever happened to your belief that all future sins have already been forgiven?  One should not have to go to sinners jail after living in sin in this life because Jesus already paid for all their sins, right?


 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Vine Abider]

2 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

But none of that matters if one can simply spend some time in sinners jail to "pay for their own sin".... we can all live sinful lifestyles and it's all good right?

Unless you are already having doubts about your new found belief in purgatory?

And yet again the strawman . . .

Strawman argument: distorting an opposing position into an extreme version of itself and then arguing against that extreme version.  (see here: https://www.grammarly.com/blog/straw-man-fallacy/)

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

9 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

And yet again the strawman . . .

Yeah, I forgot about that excuse.

That's probably rule #1 in the OSAS handbook... "if anyone does not agree with our doctrine, claim they are a strawman"

Anywho, enjoy your new found belief in purgatory and figuring out how to splice that in to once saved always saved.
 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Vine Abider]

11 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

Yeah, I forgot about that excuse.

That's probably rule #1 in the OSAS handbook... "if anyone does not agree with our doctrine, claim they are a strawman"

You don't see how much you undermine your own position by using so many ad hominin attacks and strawman arguments. (plus it often makes people not want to communicate with someone doing that)

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

8 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

You don't see how much you undermine your own position by using so many ad hominin attacks and strawman arguments. (plus it often makes people not want to communicate with someone doing that)

At this point I think our festivities are concluded.

You believe in false doctrine which is your right and it's not fair to you for someone to try to correct you with the whole counsel of God seeing you obviously favor just a select few happy verses that agree with your eisgesis

[Vine Abider]

5 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

At this point I think our festivities are concluded.

You believe in false doctrine which is your right and it's not fair to you for someone to try to correct you with the whole counsel of God seeing you obviously favor just a select few happy verses that agree with your eisgesis

Again, the ad hominin attack.  But you are right - your comments have been "interesting," but let's call it a day, eh?  So others can have a chance . . .

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

4 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Again, the ad hominin attack. 

Yes of course.... those that carry these freaky new doctrines nobody else agrees with that takes ignoring scripture to hold to get attacked all the time!

Have fun with the purgatory teaching!

[Daniel Marsh]

On 9/16/2023 at 2:19 PM, Vine Abider said:

On a flight home yesterday I was considering the OSAS arguments, both the pros and cons.  I decided to jot down reason why I know I’m eternally saved and secure in this wonderful salvation.  Below are 12 reasons that came to me, and I thought to share them with my brothers and sisters here on Worthy.  I hope and sincerely pray these may be a help to some and that God would shine liberating light on all of us.

(I you don’t see an applicable verse for any of these – please ask)

1.      Nothing can separate me from the love of God – not even me!  (Romans 8:38-39)

2.      Christ’s ultimate sacrifice on the cross paid for ALL my sins – “removed as far as the east is from the west” (Psalm 103:12)

3.      By being born-again, God’s very life has been sent into me – “Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying, ‘Abba!  Father!’”  (John 3:6, Galatians 4:6)

4.      Old things have passed away and I am a new creature in Christ! (2 Corinthians 5:17, Col. 3:1-3)

5.      I have been placed into Christ – joined to Him - and placed in His body by the Supreme Power in the universe, which no one can undo – “It is of God that you are in Christ Jesus” “He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit with Him”  (1 Cor 1:30, 12:18, 6:17, 2 Cor 1:21, Eph 2:6)

6.      I am now a child/son of God, born of my Father, and a partaker of His divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

7.      Christ’s attributes and inheritance are mine forever, given to us by our older Brother. “in Him . . . the righteousness of God in Christ” “Joint heirs with Christ”   (2 Cor 5:21, Romans 8:17)

8.      God now looks at me as He does His Son and we are sealed for Him by the Spirit.  (Eph 1:13, 1 John 4:17, Gal 2:20, Col 3:3-4)

9.      There is now no condemnation for me whatsoever, since I have been put into Christ!  (Romans 8:1)

10.   I know that as His child there is accountability and discipline to help me grow and mature, but it is all for the good and therefore, my loving Father will not send me to eternal death. (1 Cor 3:12, Rev 3:19, Heb 12:11, Psalm 16:10)

11.   My identification is now as a son of God with His life in me, but sin is still present in my flesh and can be manifested in my actions.  However, God no longer views me as a sinner (because of the all efficacious work of Christ for me), but rather as a child of God, a saint who sometimes sins.

12.   I have been set free for freedom’s sake and can come boldly ANYTIME to the throne of grace, to obtain mercy and grace to help in time of need à  And this is especially true after I fail!

It has been bothering and a little grieving to me to see all my brothers and sisters on here who don’t realize what a complete work Christ has done for us in giving us eternal life, which may never be taken from us!  Christ’s awesome work, in His substitutionary death and resurrection, results in His very life being made available to “whosoever wills.”  And through being born-again we are made God’s children, who can’t be unborn.  Being God’s children is not just a legal matter of adoption, but also a matter of life – Father’s very life comes into us making us children of the Most High and Christ’s brothers!

And hopefully the aspect of a believer’s accountability has been effectively presented in this post and on various recent threads (by others & myself).  To reiterate, even though we are forgiven of sin because of Christ’s magnificent work on the cross, sin in a believer’s life can still cause many problems.  The new life that is in us does not want to sin, however we still have the choice to live according to the sinful flesh.  If we do, Romans 8:13 tells us we “are about to die.”  (then goes on to say, “But if by the spirit you put to death the practices of the body you will live.”)  This is not referring to eternal death here, but rather the living spirit in us will be deadened by setting our mind on the flesh, that is, until we turn back to Him.  Ultimately, all believers will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ, discussed in Romans 14:10 and 2 Cor 5:10.  Here, the Righteous Judge will determine whether children of God have built (our works) with good materials (gold, silver, precious stone) or poor materials (wood, hay, straw).  If we did well and built with the materials God desires, we will receive accommodation and praise from Him.  If it’s found we lived in sin and built with a bunch of poor materials, these poor building materials will be judged accordingly and will be burnt up.  Therefore, we will suffer loss and He will be ashamed of us, but since we are still sealed children of our Father, we ourselves will be saved.

So that’s why I know that I know that I know that I have eternal life, which I cannot undo . . . no more that I can climb back into my mother’s womb and somehow be unborn.  Yes, it is truly amazing grace! 

 

“When I see the blood, I will pass over you.”

“It is of God that you are in Christ Jesus.”

Exodus 12:13 & 1 Corinthians 1:30

 

Good list Brother, friend --- How do you answer:

 

Hebrews 6:4-6

 

Darby Translation

 

 

⁴ For it is impossible to renew again to repentance those once enlightened, and who have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have been made partakers of [the] Holy Spirit,

⁵ and have tasted the good word of God, and [the] works of power of [the] age to come,

⁶ and have fallen away, crucifying for themselves [as they do] the Son of God, and making a show of [him].

[The_Patriot21]

You know, here's the thing, I fail to grasp the division this doctrine causes. @Stan Murfflook at you, your literally insulting people and questioning your brothers salvation over, get this, a non salvation issue. 

I rarely enter OSAS debates. Don't get me wrong...with the right people they make for good debates. But, more often then not, it just leads to unneeded division. And let me explain why.

There's no practical application.

Let me repeat. There's. No. Practical. Application.

Let me explain.

If you see someone who once professed Christ there is only 3 possibilities.

1: they were never saved to begin with. This is possible no matter what side of the debate your on.

2: they are still saved, but have simply backslidden. Again, this is possible no matter what side of the fence your on.

3: they have walked away from their salvation. And I specify walk away, because the Bible is clear God won't kick you out, so the only way one could, arguably, "lose" ones salvation is if they chose to walk away, then that of course is only possible in one camp.

So, in all three scenarios, what is the solution? Is there a different solution to each scenario? 

No, there absolutely is not. The solution in all three, is to pray for them. To witness to them. To try and point them to Christ.

Why is the solution the same? Because only God knows the heart. Where their heart is, is between them and God. It's not for any of us to decide who is saved, it's just up to us to pray for one another, to lift one another up, and hold each other accountable.

I'm not going to lie, ive never hidden it...I am not in the traditional OSAS camp in that I do believe one can walk away from their salvation. But I attend a church that teaches OSAS. Most of my friends are OSAS. It doesn't bother me, for the above reasons. 

I'm not going to debate the issue here, because like I have stated it's a non issue. Its not a salvation issue, it's a good discussion topic among brothers who are mature enough to sharpen each other, but as oftentimes online, you get people who aren't mature enough and it just leads to party lines, insults, pride, arrogance and threads getting shut down. So please if you guys can't keep your cool perhaps step back for a bit until you can. And that's my advice for everyone in this thread.