No man knows the things of God

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

 

I had messed up this thread with my unspiritual earthly meditation yesterday, and I want to make that up to the OP and maybe add something more up to speed

Alrighty StewardOfTheMystery we are looking at spiritual things, how about this.

Paul tells us that the law is spiritual Romans 7:14  and we are taught by the Spirit of God to compare spiritual things with spiritual. Since the law having shadow of the good things to come but not the very image of things Hebrews 10:1 we can compare the things within it.

And here's a verse where God makes a thing or two clear to us in saying,

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

And we know Abraham was a prophet (Gen 20:7) so Paul would have understood that Abraham's things were spiritual things and could be used in an allegorical fashion as he had done in Galatians 4

For example, here, Abraham's two sons by two the women (Sarah and Hagar) 

Gal 4:22 For it is written,

That Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Paul sums these things up saying,

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants

 Which things also "we speak" Paul says,

1 Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Which things would not be received by everyone, as Paul said,

1 Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So the natural man receiveth not those things

But as far back as Adam (the first man, of the earth) is found "the figure of" him that was to come Romans5:14 Even in the man and woman becoming one flesh is great mystery as Paul touched on in Ephes 5:32  saying, This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning "Christ and the church".

And just as Adam is the figure of him who was to come so also was Melchisedec made like unto the Son of God Hebrews 7:3 so that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest Hebrews 7:15 which again points us to Jesus Christ Psalm 110:4 And the similitude of Melchisedec is found in "Abraham's things" God having used similitudes by the ministry of the prophets.

Same with Moses in the law who was a servant for a testimony

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after

A testimony of those things which were to be spoken after pointing to Jesus Christ

As Jesus said,
John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

As it is written
Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

And Jesus said,
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Back again,
Deut 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

And back to Jesus again
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

They said,
John 9:29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.

Confirmed by the apostles
Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

There are layers of various things in the law, in various ways through out, each one should have its own post. I certainly haven't discovered them all but they are sure fun to search for, find and have them come into focus like they do. Just those things coming into a crystal clear focus is an awesome experience. It's like being blind as a bat and given superman glasses or something.

Not sure if this is something like what you are looking for or not, but I have a few attempts left in me. I will aim to please haha.

I sure hope thats a little better, a little briefer and a little more on topic.

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Stewardofthemystery]

12 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Sorry bout that, I am a habitual strayer into the land off topic-ness, I havent mastered the art of staying strictly on topic, its like a chronic disease on my part. I wont say much more.

But here's the amazing thing, it just dawned on me.  To the harlots, publicans and common folks they arent shown wresting with the whole water and Spirit analogy because John said to them 

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

So John had already put that out there and the common people heard it and received it just not the Pharisees, they just were not receiving this water thing with John.

It was the water baptism rejecting Pharisee that had the problem with John's baptism (water)

Jesus told the Pharisee

Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The common folks here 

All the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

And so they would enter the Kingdom of God ahead of the blind Pharisees

 The publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you

Because who did the will of the Father, it was these, not rejecting the counsel of God against themselves in this.

They would not receive John or Jesus testimony, they went after both of them

For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. 

But wisdom is justified of her children.

In the context of being born of water and Spirit (what John himself is quoted as mentioning)

Jesus said to Nicodemus

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Like this is very basic stuff here

This is speaking of both Jesus and John

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

They rejected John and Jesus, and said one hath a devil, the other a gluttonous winebibber, friend of publicans and sinners (which were going to enter into the Kingdom of God ahead of the blind Pharisee.

I just love it! It was such a simple thing but often made so complicated and/or mysterious but it isnt because they are the ones left behind as the "sinners" are going in ahead of these guys 

It just hit me like a ton of bricks, I mean I saw it, but I did not see the weight of it and its pretty awesome, I love  the whole hid these things from the wise and learned but it sure come across more like those who claim to be wise than those who actually are wise, and revealing them unto babes.

It should probably be no surprise that Zacchaeus (a Chief publican no doubt) and underling of John's given what is shown in that picture with Jesus is called a Son of Abraham, salvation had come to him that day.

I will end it there but I was blessed this morning, and just going with the flow of things, I dont know what just knock me in my noggin but it was all good, very basic stuff.

Peace and Gods blessings in Christ be yours

 

 

 

That’s alright, I don’t get bent out of shape if we stray a bit from the OP. In a round about way “hearing” or “not hearing” the Testimony of the Spirit has to do with the topic as well.

As you mentioned with both John and Jesus some did not believe their Testimony, just as the natural man receives not the Testimony of the Spirit.

We are given the reason why those who are still “of the world”cannot receive the Testimony of the Spirit, because “it” seeth Him not.

John said….

John 3:27-33

King James Version

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be “given him from heaven.”

28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.”

Notice John said a man can receive nothing except it be “given” him from heaven.

Jesus said the same, when He said to the apostles unto them it is “given” to know the mysteries of the Kingdom, but to others it was not “given”

Matthew 13:11

He answered and said unto them, Because it is “given”unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them “it is not given.”

So only those who are “given” ears to hear and eyes to see, will be able to recieve, believe, and understand the mysteries of the Kingdom spoken by the Spirit.

Those who are “of the earth” are still “in the flesh”and are “carnally minded,”these are still in that old natural man heart/mind/spirit.

They will not, and cannot receive the Testimony of God spoken by the Spirit unless it is “given” to them from heaven as John said.

Those who are sent by God and come in the name of the Lord the world will not and cannot receive.  Like Jesus said in 

John 5:43

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

 

So those who are still “of the world,” and are still of “the spirit of this world,”they will only receive their own, but they will not receive those who God has sent in His name, like John and Jesus.

 

The world only receives it own…

 

1 John 4:4-6

King James Version

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and “the world heareth them.”

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”

 

 

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

You posted some great ones StewardOfTheMystery, perfect to work with, using some of the verses you posted with a few more woven in, do you find we agree here?

At the first, since he is from above he tells them 

Jesus said, Ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

To his unbelieving brethren after the flesh he says

The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

After that, to those who he would call friends he says,

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Jesus continues as they are no more of the world saying

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

As John says, "Marvel not my brethren if the world hate you"

Not the spirit of the world

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God...

We have the greater between the two

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience, which is not the Spirit of truth but to the contrary, the spirit of a lie (which also has a father of it)

And so again,

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Which would all naturally receive their own

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

That would naturally speak evil against that which it "understands not" also  since the natural man also receiveth not "the things" of the Spirit of God (which it cannot know) these things being foolish to him, after that manner.

Jesus said,

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

His speech, as Paul's

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power

Returning back to here

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us

It's between the spirit that works in them which is called the spirit of the world, referred to "as he" that is in the world, contrasted with the spirit of truth and also called "spirit of error" which is another word for delusion. A strong delusion is sent by God to those who receive not a love for the truth as we know. The mystery of iniquity already doth work it says,

Just touching down on a couple of things, notice the world does not recieve the Spirit of truth "because" it seeth him not.

as Jesus said, " ... and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me"

As the Spirit of truth would come

..."the Spirit of truth"; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

And so again, we know that

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Confirmed here

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. 

And hereby we know between the two

Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

The spirit of error there is the same used for delusion

Which is interesting because it speaks of those who received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved and so God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

A strong working of error, a delusion, a lie

Something similar is shown in 1 Kings, when God is shown sending a lying spirit there also. And just so we don't miss it, it states very plainly that the LORD does this

Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

So it would not be much of a stretch to contrast the Spirit of truth with what we might call the spirit of a lie, which is consistent with a strong delusion to believe a lie, or a working error in that sense (coming after the "working of" Satan) who is called the father of lies. 

Notice its one spirit in the mouth of many false prophets, even as there is one Spirit of truth in those who belong to Christ. Same with the "even him" (singularly) coming after the working of Satan "in them" plurally. Theres definately some equal comparisons to be made between all these things

And John also writes concerning those who would try to seduce them more specifically telling them

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of
 all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This is a bit longwinded again, but I thought these might fit in according to the verses you are sharing in your last verse.

Peace and God's blessings to you in Christ

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Stewardofthemystery]

15 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

You posted some great ones StewardOfTheMystery, perfect to work with, using some of the verses you posted with a few more woven in, do you find we agree here?

At the first, since he is from above he tells them 

Jesus said, Ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

To his unbelieving brethren after the flesh he says

The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

After that, to those who he would call friends he says,

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Jesus continues as they are no more of the world saying

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

As John says, "Marvel not my brethren if the world hate you"

Not the spirit of the world

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God...

We have the greater between the two

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience, which is not the Spirit of truth but to the contrary, the spirit of a lie (which also has a father of it)

And so again,

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Which would all naturally receive their own

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

That would naturally speak evil against that which it "understands not" also  since the natural man also receiveth not "the things" of the Spirit of God (which it cannot know) these things being foolish to him, after that manner.

Jesus said,

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

His speech, as Paul's

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power

Returning back to here

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us

It's between the spirit that works in them which is called the spirit of the world, referred to "as he" that is in the world, contrasted with the spirit of truth and also called "spirit of error" which is another word for delusion. A strong delusion is sent by God to those who receive not a love for the truth as we know. The mystery of iniquity already doth work it says,

Just touching down on a couple of things, notice the world does not recieve the Spirit of truth "because" it seeth him not.

as Jesus said, " ... and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me"

As the Spirit of truth would come

..."the Spirit of truth"; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

And so again, we know that

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Confirmed here

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. 

And hereby we know between the two

Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

The spirit of error there is the same used for delusion

Which is interesting because it speaks of those who received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved and so God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

A strong working of error, a delusion, a lie

Something similar is shown in 1 Kings, when God is shown sending a lying spirit there also. And just so we don't miss it, it states very plainly that the LORD does this

Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

So it would not be much of a stretch to contrast the Spirit of truth with what we might call the spirit of a lie, which is consistent with a strong delusion to believe a lie, or a working error in that sense (coming after the "working of" Satan) who is called the father of lies. 

Notice its one spirit in the mouth of many false prophets, even as there is one Spirit of truth in those who belong to Christ. Same with the "even him" (singularly) coming after the working of Satan "in them" plurally. Theres definately some equal comparisons to be made between all these things

And John also writes concerning those who would try to seduce them more specifically telling them

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of
 all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This is a bit longwinded again, but I thought these might fit in according to the verses you are sharing in your last verse.

Peace and God's blessings to you in Christ

 

Well said, and Yes we agree.  Blessed you are indeed, because you understand this Mystery.  Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but the Spirit of the Living God.

1 Corinthians 2:10

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Now expanding on the doctrine of being “of the world” or being “not of the world.”

We have the prophecy of “being of the Head” if we are born again from above. Or being “of the tail” if we are still “of the world” or “from below.”

Here is the prophecy of being “made”of the Head, or of the tail.

Deuteronomy 28:13

And the Lord shall “make thee the head, and not the tail;”and thou shalt be “above only,” and thou shalt not be “beneath;” if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:”

 

Jesus said in 

John 8:23

And he said unto them, Ye are from “beneath;” I am “from above:”ye are “of this world;” I am not of this world.”

 

And we also know by God’s words who the Head is….

 

1 Corinthians 11:3

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and “the head”of Christ is God.

 

Ephesians 4:15

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which “is the head,” even Christ:

Ephesians 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is “the head”of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

 

If we are born again “from above” we are also “of the Head,”and then we will also have the mind of Christ.

 

1 Corinthians 2:16

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.”

 

Now those who are still “of this world” are from below, and they are also “of the tail” having the spirit of this world working in them.

 

The meaning of being of the tail is revealed here….

 

Isaiah 9:15

The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

 

So those who speak lies by the spirit of the Devil are “of the tail.”  And those who speak the Truth by the Spirit of Truth are “of the Head.”

 

This “division”is shown in many different ways in scripture between Good vs. Evil between Light vs. Darkness, between flesh vs. Spirit, between the natural mind vs the Spiritual mind, between Righteousness vs. Sin, between Life vs. Death.

 

When this “great divide” between Heaven and earth is revealed to you by the Spirit, many mysteries will also be revealed to you by the Head.

 

Peace

 

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Peace to you StewardOfTheMystery, thank you for your reply, I might be a little disapointing this time, because I might not be catching this one altogether, and need a little help but I spent some time looking at this, maybe I could use more time to look at it but here is what I have so far.

We know that the head of Christ is God, who made Christ the head of the church and began doing this according to what God spake by Moses in raising up a prophet like unto Moses in Deut:18:18 (speaking of Christ). Then in the context of speaking of " For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given" in Isaiah 9 and the government in Isaiah 9:13 it says, "For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts" and then... Isaiah 9:14 says, "Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day."

If any head were to be cut off as a head might refer to Christ at all would agree in Isaiah 53:8 since it was Jesus Christ who was cut off out of the land of the living, as would agree Daniel 9:26 "Messiah be cut off, but not for himself"  and is answered in John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away Just as we know that in Isaiah 53:8 that it was Christ spoken of in Daniel 9:26 for he was cut off out of the land of the living and in Isaiah 9:15 acknowledges, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head";  And adding onto the back of that, "and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail"

Whereas Jesus is both head (of the Church) and the true prophet God raised up like unto Moses who speaks the truth (not lies) but sends the Spirit of truth to abide with us.

It says here in respects to Israel

Isaiah 9:14 "Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day."

And in respects to Egypt it mentions the same here

Isaiah 9:15 Neither shall there be any work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.

You are likely taking this to the dragon (which has seven heads) and his tail

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns,  and seven crowns upon his heads.

And since his tail, draws the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

But how is this tied into the LORD "cutting off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day." In Isaiah 9:14

We have God, the head of Christ, a prophet like unto Moses, the head of the Church

We have the dragon with seven heads, a tail that could be considered a prophet that speaks lies. 

In the case of both, there is one Lord Jesus Christ (likened to the prophet, and the Spirit of truth) and one tail (of the dragon, a false prophet that speaketh lies, and so he is the father of it).

Trying to wrap my head around how all this can be wrap together without trying to contradict, but without trying to make too vast a leap.

Can you tell where I might be off and are you able to help close any gaps for me in this thing? Just so I can follow you better.

Unless you might be implying that Jesus as some point was the tail (and by that, meaning coming from behind)? Not sure on that point either.

These things are interesting and fun to search out.

Peace in Christ

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[farouk]

On 10/14/2023 at 4:08 PM, AFlameOfFire said:

You posted some great ones StewardOfTheMystery, perfect to work with, using some of the verses you posted with a few more woven in, do you find we agree here?

At the first, since he is from above he tells them 

Jesus said, Ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

To his unbelieving brethren after the flesh he says

The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

After that, to those who he would call friends he says,

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Jesus continues as they are no more of the world saying

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

As John says, "Marvel not my brethren if the world hate you"

Not the spirit of the world

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God...

We have the greater between the two

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience, which is not the Spirit of truth but to the contrary, the spirit of a lie (which also has a father of it)

And so again,

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Which would all naturally receive their own

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

That would naturally speak evil against that which it "understands not" also  since the natural man also receiveth not "the things" of the Spirit of God (which it cannot know) these things being foolish to him, after that manner.

Jesus said,

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

His speech, as Paul's

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power

Returning back to here

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us

It's between the spirit that works in them which is called the spirit of the world, referred to "as he" that is in the world, contrasted with the spirit of truth and also called "spirit of error" which is another word for delusion. A strong delusion is sent by God to those who receive not a love for the truth as we know. The mystery of iniquity already doth work it says,

Just touching down on a couple of things, notice the world does not recieve the Spirit of truth "because" it seeth him not.

as Jesus said, " ... and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me"

As the Spirit of truth would come

..."the Spirit of truth"; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

And so again, we know that

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Confirmed here

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. 

And hereby we know between the two

Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

The spirit of error there is the same used for delusion

Which is interesting because it speaks of those who received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved and so God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

A strong working of error, a delusion, a lie

Something similar is shown in 1 Kings, when God is shown sending a lying spirit there also. And just so we don't miss it, it states very plainly that the LORD does this

Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

So it would not be much of a stretch to contrast the Spirit of truth with what we might call the spirit of a lie, which is consistent with a strong delusion to believe a lie, or a working error in that sense (coming after the "working of" Satan) who is called the father of lies. 

Notice its one spirit in the mouth of many false prophets, even as there is one Spirit of truth in those who belong to Christ. Same with the "even him" (singularly) coming after the working of Satan "in them" plurally. Theres definately some equal comparisons to be made between all these things

And John also writes concerning those who would try to seduce them more specifically telling them

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of
 all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This is a bit longwinded again, but I thought these might fit in according to the verses you are sharing in your last verse.

Peace and God's blessings to you in Christ

 

@AFlameOfFire Great verses there; shows just how the world and Christ are in opposite, opposing thought systems, indeed.........with plenty of Scripture to back this up.

[Stewardofthemystery]

15 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Peace to you StewardOfTheMystery, thank you for your reply, I might be a little disapointing this time, because I might not be catching this one altogether, and need a little help but I spent some time looking at this, maybe I could use more time to look at it but here is what I have so far.

We know that the head of Christ is God, who made Christ the head of the church and began doing this according to what God spake by Moses in raising up a prophet like unto Moses in Deut:18:18 (speaking of Christ). Then in the context of speaking of " For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given" in Isaiah 9 and the government in Isaiah 9:13 it says, "For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts" and then... Isaiah 9:14 says, "Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day."

If any head were to be cut off as a head might refer to Christ at all would agree in Isaiah 53:8 since it was Jesus Christ who was cut off out of the land of the living, as would agree Daniel 9:26 "Messiah be cut off, but not for himself"  and is answered in John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away Just as we know that in Isaiah 53:8 that it was Christ spoken of in Daniel 9:26 for he was cut off out of the land of the living and in Isaiah 9:15 acknowledges, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head";  And adding onto the back of that, "and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail"

Whereas Jesus is both head (of the Church) and the true prophet God raised up like unto Moses who speaks the truth (not lies) but sends the Spirit of truth to abide with us.

It says here in respects to Israel

Isaiah 9:14 "Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day."

And in respects to Egypt it mentions the same here

Isaiah 9:15 Neither shall there be any work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.

You are likely taking this to the dragon (which has seven heads) and his tail

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns,  and seven crowns upon his heads.

And since his tail, draws the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

But how is this tied into the LORD "cutting off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day." In Isaiah 9:14

We have God, the head of Christ, a prophet like unto Moses, the head of the Church

We have the dragon with seven heads, a tail that could be considered a prophet that speaks lies. 

In the case of both, there is one Lord Jesus Christ (likened to the prophet, and the Spirit of truth) and one tail (of the dragon, a false prophet that speaketh lies, and so he is the father of it).

Trying to wrap my head around how all this can be wrap together without trying to contradict, but without trying to make too vast a leap.

Can you tell where I might be off and are you able to help close any gaps for me in this thing? Just so I can follow you better.

Unless you might be implying that Jesus as some point was the tail (and by that, meaning coming from behind)? Not sure on that point either.

These things are interesting and fun to search out.

Peace in Christ

 

 

Good question. I think the simple answer to the question is the “head” and “tail” does not always refer to God and to Satan.  It can also mean like being on the “top” or on the “bottom”as like in the social status of a person, like rich vs the poor etc.

Notice here…

Deuteronomy 28:43-44

King James Version

43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up “above thee very high;”and thou shalt “come down very low.”

44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be “the head,”and thou shalt be “the tail.”

So I think that is what those verses you quoted are showing in Isaiah 9:14 and 19:15

Peace

Edited October 16, 2023 by Stewardofthemystery

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

11 hours ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Good question. I think the simple answer to the question is the “head” and “tail” does not always refer to God and to Satan.  It can also mean like being on the “top” or on the “bottom”as like in the social status of a person, like rich vs the poor etc.

Notice here…

Deuteronomy 28:43-44

King James Version

43 The stranger that is within thee shall get up “above thee very high;”and thou shalt “come down very low.”

44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be “the head,”and thou shalt be “the tail.”

So I think that is what those verses you quoted are showing in Isaiah 9:14 and 19:15

Peace

Who do you believe the head is there StewardOfTheMystery?

Because if we are looking at these two verse in their context here, it starts with a "therefore" so what initially preceeds them has to apply in some way.

Isaiah 9:14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail,

branch and rush, in one day. (what day is this speaking of?)

Isaiah 9:15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

If in the first verse (vs 14) it says, the LORD will "cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day". (all of them)

And the following verse (vs 15) tells us what the head and tail are (which are cut off in that one day)

The ancient and honourable, he is the head;(which is cut off) and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.(which is also cut off)

He is just defining what he is cutting off in just one day, so if it is not the head of Christ (God obviously) and not speaking of Christ (who is the head of the Church who was cut off) its speaking of others?

I was trying to get a better idea of what I am looking at because I don't really search these things out. But if  "ancient and honourable" being cut off applies more to how your putting it, such as "the top" parts/ chief men? (so to speak) the same are mentioned in "the taking away" thereof in Isaiah 3:1-7 Would this fit?

Isaiah 3:1-7 For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, 
the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water, The mighty man, and the man of war, the judge, and the prophet, and the prudent, 
and the ancient, The captain of fifty, and the honourable man, and the counsellor, and the cunning artificer, and the eloquent orator.
And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them. And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, 
and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable. When 
a man shall take hold of his brother of the house of his father, saying, Thou hast clothing, be thou our ruler, and let this ruin be under thy hand: In that day shall he swear, saying, I will not be an healer; for in my house is neither bread nor clothing: make me not a ruler of the people.

The two are mentioned in the above as being removed, and the people seem to be looking for a head (by way of rulership) and no one wants it.

But not sure, because although there are similarities, "the ancient and honorable" seems to be one, " a he" in particular rather than two sorts (referred to as either one or the other).

But no "ancient and honourable" as "a he" (as the head/ cut off ), in any way  referring to the "ancient of days"?

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Danieel 7:32 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

That would be a no, then. I will likely let you lay what you want to lay out and say no more because I dont know. I will just be blowing smoke into your thread fustrating your efforts.

Do you at least have a grip on what day the head/tail/branch/rush was cut off? I am clueless, and really stink with anything that is eschatological-ish, there is a great  need for me to do far more than brush up on it.

Peace to you in Christ

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

StewardOfTheMystery, can you fix your profile to accept a follow?