The “anti-Christ”

[Charlie744]

37 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The prophecy concerning the little horn and the persecution of the saints in Israel ,is about Daniels people as Daniel was told.

 

Daniel 10

Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

 

 

It's not about the world trade center falling .

What? Medic!!!!!

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

This prophecy concerning the little horn persecuting the saints  is about what befalls Daniels people as Daniel was told.This is entirely about Israel.

 

²⁴ And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

²⁵ And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

²⁶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

²⁷ And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

The little horn is the Israeli government which will persecuted the saints in Israel for 3.5 years because those saints won't worship the Israeli government ,it's kingdom.or take it mark .Those saints will be persecuted in every Israeli town for testifying of Christ before the great day of the Lord is come.They are watchmen sounding the alarm as they have been instructed to do.After their persecution the kingdom is totally destroyed by fire and then given to those saints for an everlasting possession.That is the promise God made to Abraham.

This prophecy concerning the little horn is entirely about the little country called Israel and the saints in that country.The persecution begins after the king of the north gives the Israeli government an army.An army full of evangelicals and is becoming more evangelical by the day but they will get their orders from the Israeli government.

 

 

 

 

⁸ And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

⁹ But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

¹⁰ Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

¹¹ And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

¹² But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake

Okay….

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

I have been quite clear what I believe the Scriptures are telling us.

It's not the end of the world if we disagree with you in favour of the NT passages that point to the climax of wickedness and the removal by God of the restraint currently in place that keeps the disclosure of the ultimate, final antichrist false prophet's identity hidden.

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

It's not the end of the world if we disagree with you in favour of the NT passages that point to the climax of wickedness and the removal by God of the restraint currently in place that keeps the disclosure of the ultimate, final antichrist false prophet's identity hidden.

Oh no... I am not worried in the least if my responses are not accepted... that must be expected. This is such an extremely difficult topic. I was merely mentioning that I was hoping that MY responses were clear - not necessarily correct, but I was able to convey them properly and clearly.  Sorry for the confusion.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

The book of Daniel is the most complicated and difficult book in the OT. I just spent 5 long years trying to unpack it to prepare a commentary on it. It has more layers than the earth... it will never be truly understand until we are with God. But that does not mean we should stop trying. The most frustrating and difficult times were rewarded much greater when He would allow me to see something in His words...

Revelation is also another difficult book. I have NO knowledge of it but since I completed Daniel, I hope God will allow me to try and use those new interpreations and bring them forward to unpacking Revelation. 

This is why this forum is so valuable. Someone offers their thoughts and opinions and then something clicks. You may have read a certain verse 100 times, but it did not catch your attention. Then, someone in this forum writes their thoughts a certain way and WAM - there it is... And that is exactly how God has planned this.... but some folks do not seem to be able to dialogue but criticize should their opinion differ and then the entire experience is gone. 

I do love that "instant insight" delivered by the Spirit in that very way. I am not good at the whole dialogue thing when it comes to heavy back and forth's on the forum (especially when it comes to speaking too much from ourselves) on scripture. Some do prefer that (and that is fine) but I would prefer observing someone's workmanship, to get a feel for their own handling of the scripture in their answers, just to see things laid out, and more fully so. I do not like fetching chapter verses though, where you need to do that work for them by fetching all their stuff just to figure out where they are coming from. Because that is no fun to do and too labor intensive to do your own work and theirs also. I rarely receive an insight in that undertaking but wherever that rightly handled word (as laid out) better serves that very thing up for me. Which for me always come less by speaking our own words, but His. After all I think we would all prefer to hear Him speak, His words, not our own (my own words included, since I don't even value my above His). And another thing, even when someone is using His and might be off here or there, because most of us do not always handle them perfectly as we ought (since that handling of them is also an exercise for us) there is often enough in an honest effort to deliver "to someone" an insight of some sort if only just in part. I just find that true for me anyway.

 

God bless, peace

 

 

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said:

I do love that "instant insight" delivered by the Spirit in that very way. I am not good at the whole dialogue thing when it comes to heavy back and forth's on the forum (especially when it comes to speaking too much from ourselves) on scripture. Some do prefer that (and that is fine) but I would prefer observing someone's workmanship, to get a feel for their own handling of the scripture in their answers, just to see things laid out, and more fully so. I do not like fetching chapter verses though, where you need to do that work for them by fetching all their stuff just to figure out where they are coming from. Because that is no fun to do and too labor intensive to do your own work and theirs also. I rarely receive an insight in that undertaking but wherever that rightly handled word (as laid out) better serves that very thing up for me. Which for me always come less by speaking our own words, but His. After all I think we would all prefer to hear Him speak, His words, not our own (my own words included, since I don't even value my above His). And another thing, even when someone is using His and might be off here or there, because most of us do not always handle them perfectly as we ought (since that handling of them is also an exercise for us) there is often enough in an honest effort to deliver "to someone" an insight of some sort if only just in part. I just find that true for me anyway.

 

God bless, peace

 

 

God bless.

[douggg]

On 11/12/2023 at 8:35 PM, Charlie744 said:

The majority of academics, scholars, interpreters, and followers of the Scriptures contend there IS A LITERAL ANTI-CHRIST actor or figure that will come onto the scene in the near future. 
 

There is a very small number of folks that believe there is NO SUCH EVIL FIGURE, but there is certainly the “SPIRIT OF THE ANTI - CHRIST that has been around since the cross and will continue until the end. 
 
Unless I am mistaken, the literal mention of the word “anti-Christ” is only found in 1st and 2nd Peter, and they speak of the “spirit” and not a literal person.

If that is true, then where do we find this “anti/Christ” person in the Scriptures and when does he arrive?

It is my thought that there is NO such person but there is the “little horn” that is clearly revealed in Daniel 7,8, 9 and 11 (but he is not ever identified as the “anti-Christ.” 
 

So, can someone please explain the verses showing he is a real person/individual?

Thanks. 

Hi Charlie, live's are not static, but dynamic.     We each go through roles in our live's.

Being the Anti-christ is one role of the person.

The biblical roles of the person are:

role 1 -  little horn, leader over a pact of 10 EU leaders.

role 2  -  then as the prince who shall come into the middle east following Gog/Magog.

role 3 - then anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah, by the Jews.   The Antichrist.     (Christ the king of Israel, Mark 15:32).

role 4 - - then as the revealed man of sin, transgression of desolation act, claiming to have achieved God-hood.    Ending his time as the King of Israel - Antichrist.

role 5 - then after being killed and brought back to life, becomes the beast-king of Revelation 13, for 42 months until Jesus returns.   As the beast-king, he will be dictator over the EU (Revelation 17:17).

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by douggg

[Charlie744]

6 hours ago, douggg said:

Hi Charlie, live's are not static, but dynamic.     We each go through roles in our live's.

Being the Anti-christ is one role of the person.

The biblical roles of the person are:

role 1 -  little horn, leader over a pact of 10 EU leaders.

role 2  -  then as the prince who shall come into the middle east following Gog/Magog.

role 3 - then anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah, by the Jews.   The Antichrist.     (Christ the king of Israel, Mark 15:32).

role 4 - - then as the revealed man of sin, transgression of desolation act, claiming to have achieved God-hood.    Ending his time as the King of Israel - Antichrist.

role 5 - then after being killed and brought back to life, becomes the beast-king of Revelation 13, for 42 months until Jesus returns.   As the beast-king, he will be dictator over the EU (Revelation 17:17).

 

Thanks, I don’t think I have ever seen this interpretation before.

But regardless of the many or different phases we go through during our lives, there is no “anti- Christ” figure mentioned in any book of the Bible. There certainly are those that practice or conduct their lives in an “anti-Christ” manner , but the one with “eyes and a mouth” is clearly revealed as a man in Daniel.

And regarding your EU comment, they are not one of the 4 kingdoms revealed in Daniel 2. And it is the 4th kingdom that will continue until His return. It will not be a 10 nation “pagan Rome” like group of nations - pagan Rome was slain and its body destroyed. It was replaced by papal Rome and headed by the little horn (papacy) since 500 AD, and will continue… 

The 10 horns or the 10 kings were and are not a “kingdom” coming on it’s own. They “sat atop” the 4th kingdom beast - papal Rome.  
 

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

And regarding your EU comment, they are not one of the 4 kingdoms revealed in Daniel 2. And it is the 4th kingdom that will continue until His return. It will not be a 10 nation “pagan Rome” like group of nations - pagan Rome was slain and its body destroyed. It was replaced by papal Rome and headed by the little horn (papacy) since 500 AD, and will continue… 

The EU is the end times version of the Roman Empire.   The union got its start as the EEC (European Economic Community)with the treaty of Rome in 1957.   And evolved into what is now the EU. 

The papacy, the Pope, does not command an army to carry out the beast-king's agenda.

In Daniel 11:40-44, there are battles involving the beast-king (king of the west) against the south, the north, the east.    So he has to have a strong army.

And in Daniel 8:9 as the little horn, heads south, east to the middle east and Israel with a strong army at the time of the end.    

 

 

 

 

[Charlie744]

29 minutes ago, douggg said:

The EU is the end times version of the Roman Empire.   The union got its start as the EEC (European Economic Community)with the treaty of Rome in 1957.   And evolved into what is now the EU. 

The papacy, the Pope, does not command an army to carry out the beast-king's agenda.

In Daniel 11:40-44, there are battles involving the beast-king (king of the west) against the south, the north, the east.    So he has to have a strong army.

And in Daniel 8:9 as the little horn, heads south, east to the middle east and Israel with a strong army at the time of the end.    

 

 

 

 

The book of Daniel has many transitions. The 4 kingdoms will never change but the symbols of each kingdom will change to reveal additional characteristics and attributes. 
The 4th kingdom of papal Rome headed by the little horn will not change as it is the final transition from pagan to papal Rome. And, it will indeed have to great army!  This can be found because in the book of Daniel there is also a transition from the physical to the spiritual. In the latter chapters of Daniel, God is not speaking of physical wars and conflicts but the war between the kingdom of God that He set up at His first coming versus the kingdom of the little horn (papal Rome), who will go against God, His people, His saints, etc. 

This is the real battle or war for our salvation. We can accept the Messiah and obey His commandments or follow the little horn who claims divinity and infallibility, and wars against God. 
 

In 8:9, he (little horn) does go into the direction of the south and the east AND TO THE GLORIOUS LAND. This does not refer to Israel for two reasons: 1) Gabriel already mentioned the “east” and this would certainly could have included Israel, but he purposely stepped away from using a direction of the compass and selected the term “Glorious Land.” 
This was purposeful because it would represent the direction of the compass this little horn would attack- he would be the only one to attack God in the “heavenly” direction. 
2) Remember, when the little horn came to full power it was in the 500 AD. The Jews had already been destroyed in 70 AD, so this “attack” can not refer to the Jews. But it does refer to the little horn’s attack in the vertical direction against God Himself. 
 

This conflict, battle, war that has waged on since 500 AD is the battle for “worship.” It is not a military like battle.