What is the `better resurrection? `

[Mr. M]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

The Body of Christ was not known or written about in the Gospels. It has to do with Israel and the nations.

The Body of Christ was established at the Last Supper, as documented in all four Gospels. The failure to comprehend this was one of the most critical errors that Paul corrects in 1 Corinthians 11. 

"There is One Body, One Spirit, One Hope, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism...

You Greatly Err in this matter.

[Mr. M]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Again, you are using scriptures to do with Israel and trying to make them for us. Now, could you please be a bit clearer as to your question?

I am, and I will, because they do. As to clarity of my question, I asked you for scriptures to support your position, which I find untenable. 

[WilliamL]

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

The description of the king of Tyre comes under the law of double reference - of an earthly king and of Satan, (Lucifer) who influenced him.

You are projecting your belief into this passage, when the passage itself provides no evidence for it.

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, Serving said:

Hi Marilyn,

Long time no speak huh.

When AFlameOfFire and I were chatting I didn't get the chance to tell you that I actually understood what "Better resurrection" meant before you posted this post before Flame and I were even finished chatting, Lol, you were very quick on the draw, I'll give you that.

Instead, I was musing over some other points to consider relating to "Better resurrection" that never occurred to me before is all ..   

Even though I don't agree with everything you posted, overall, I agree with your general description of better resurrection minus a small few hiccups therein. 

I still thank you for going to the effort of posting this though. After all, none of us agree on everything right?

I do want to say this though .. when I read Rev 12, I perceive that Satan was kicked out of heaven either when Christ was crucified or when Christ ascended, between that narrow window anyways .. I'm still 50/50 on the actual timing though, have been for years.

So thanks again Marilyn, cheers.  

Hi Serving,

So good to know that you too believe what God`s word says. Now, would you like to discuss those `small hiccups? `

As to Rev. 12 you may like to think on v. 14 with the 3 1/2 years still to go.

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, Mr. M said:

The Body of Christ was established at the Last Supper, as documented in all four Gospels. The failure to comprehend this was one of the most critical errors that Paul corrects in 1 Corinthians 11. 

"There is One Body, One Spirit, One Hope, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism...

You Greatly Err in this matter.

You quoted Eph. 4: 5 and NOT the Last Supper. There is no indication that Jesus established the Body of Christ at the Last Supper. The ascended Lord revealed that revelation to the Apostle Paul.

`How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery ....which in other ages was NOT made known to the sons of men,....that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body,...` (Eph. 3: 3 - 6)

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

We know in Rev. 12: 7 - 12 that there was a war in heaven and Satan and his fallen angels were cast out to the earth. Obviously, they were in a higher authoritative position and then had to come down to be limited to the earth.

And in Eph. 6: 12 that we `do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in the heavenly places. `

There again we are told of rulers, wickedness etc  in the heavenly places. And as Lucifer/Satan was cast out of higher up, the third heaven, the downward fall is clear.

But you and I both know that in this war you have not left earth. Nor did our Lord Jesus. But the Overcomers of Revelation 12 fought this by admitting their need of the blood of Christ, by denying their souls and by what they said. Michael, and angel, did the fighting to eject Satan. The moral battle is fought on earth.

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Now that is a very good question there Ad Hoc. I do like it when people think and ask an important question.

God`s great kingdom involves ALL He made from the highest to the lowest. All positions of authority were given to either angels or man. However, none of these have been shown to be able to rule righteously. 

This God knew but because He is just, He has given opportunity for this. 

Now God could have just ruled `from a distance, ` beyond heaven but His desire is to have sons who would rule with His visible glorified Son in the third heaven. These `sons` are of the new man, with bodies made for the higher realms.

And then in the Universal realm God has planned for others to rule there - in the New Jerusalem. It will be the connecting of the spiritual and physical realms.

Then on the new earth man (from Adam) will be made new and have dominion over the earth as declared in Genesis.

Every realm with righteous rulership, under the Lord Jesus Christ.

God's Kingdom as an all-encompassing Kingdom is not disputed. But God appointed MAN to bring it to earth. "Thy Kingdom COME ..."! That is, the kingdom is established but God's style of rulership was not not exercised on earth. Again we see this in the original instruction to man - "SUBDUE". The order to "subdue" implies a rebellion is in progress. But it is ON EARTH for His will is done in heaven.

New Jerusalem will be on earth. Or else you need to find how the Nations that visit it, and who are vetted by the Gates, get to heaven. I've never heard of the Nations in the universal realm. In fact, I've never heard or seen scripture with this word or concept.

 

[Mr. M]

12 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

You quoted Eph. 4: 5 and NOT the Last Supper. There is no indication that Jesus established the Body of Christ at the Last Supper. The ascended Lord revealed that revelation to the Apostle Paul.

I cited 1 Corinthians 11:

17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

You are not rightly discerning the Lord's Body, or the Lord's Table, and bringing on this condemnation. In not knowing these things, you disqualify yourself.

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

If you understood these things, you would know the reason why the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15 gave the Gentiles four commandments, to allow them to partake of the Lord's Table without offense to Jews, and why Paul rebuked Peter from pulling away from sitting with Gentiles at the Lord's Table. It is the fellowship of the saints, or as some would call it, communion.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Mr. M

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

You are projecting your belief into this passage, when the passage itself provides no evidence for it.

Quote: - Your statements directly contradict verse 12, wherein God addresses a "lamentation for the king of Tyre... "You were the seal of perfection..." "

This spirit-king of Tyre was comparable to "the sar of  Persia" and "the sar of Greece" of Daniel 10, that is, other such corrupted yet still heavenly spirits. All of these were not impure in their beginnings, but only became corrupted over time, both by being seduced by Satan, and by their meddling in the affairs of men. The latter testified by verse 16.

So you are going beyond the description of it just being an earthly king, you are saying it is a `spirit-king.` However, it seems you don`t believe it is Lucifer/Satan.

I disagree as the details clearly show that this spirit-king was Lucifer.

`You were the seal of perfection. Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God: every precious stone was you covering...(High priest) ...the workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created, (music)...You were the anointed cherub who covers (God`s holiness): I established you;

You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of the fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you....Therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God...` (Ez. 28: 12 - 16)

`

[Marilyn C]

1 minute ago, Mr. M said:

I cited 1 Corinthians 11:

17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

You are not rightly discerning the Lord's Body, or the Lord's Table, and bringing on this condemnation. In not knowing these things, you disqualify yourself.

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

If you understood these things, you would know the reason why the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15 gave the Gentiles four commandments, to allow them to partake of the Lord's Table without offense to Jews, and why Paul rebuked Peter from pulling away from sitting with Gentiles at the Lord's Table. It is the fellowship of the saints, or as some would call it, communion.

Jesus was telling the disciples that His physical body is what is the sacrifice of the Passover, and that they were to do it in remembrance of Him. There is NO mention of the Gentiles becoming one spiritual Body with the Jews.

[Marilyn C]

45 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

But you and I both know that in this war you have not left earth. Nor did our Lord Jesus. But the Overcomers of Revelation 12 fought this by admitting their need of the blood of Christ, by denying their souls and by what they said. Michael, and angel, did the fighting to eject Satan. The moral battle is fought on earth.

God's Kingdom as an all-encompassing Kingdom is not disputed. But God appointed MAN to bring it to earth. "Thy Kingdom COME ..."! That is, the kingdom is established but God's style of rulership was not not exercised on earth. Again we see this in the original instruction to man - "SUBDUE". The order to "subdue" implies a rebellion is in progress. But it is ON EARTH for His will is done in heaven.

New Jerusalem will be on earth. Or else you need to find how the Nations that visit it, and who are vetted by the Gates, get to heaven. I've never heard of the Nations in the universal realm. In fact, I've never heard or seen scripture with this word or concept.

 

Yes, we are on earth however, God`s word says that we war against these principalities and powers and rulers etc in the HEAVENLY PLACES. That is where their authority position is and they exercise it over the world. However, in the middle of the trib, we read that their power in reduced to just on the earth. 

We both agree that God gave man dominion on the earth, however, you don`t address the other areas of God`s great kingdom that had rulership but rebelled - the third heaven & the Universal realm.

The glory of God from the New Jerusalem shines over the earth as it revolves. That is how every part of the earth can `walk in its light.` (Rev. 21: 24) 

And only `the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. ` (Rev. 21: 24)

God has no trouble transporting men even from early days throughout his universe.