What is the `better resurrection? `

[Mr. M]

12 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Jesus was telling the disciples that His physical body is what is the sacrifice of the Passover, and that they were to do it in remembrance of Him. There is NO mention of the Gentiles becoming one spiritual Body with the Jews.

That is exactly what Paul teaches in 1 Co 11. His point is that the Body of Christ was, in fact, established at the Last Supper. The fact that Paul is the one to proclaim it doesn't change the fact of when this was established. 

If you insist on teaching what Paul calls a heresy, I would beg that @George would fully review this exchange and how such a teaching aligns with the forum's articles of faith. To teach and believe that the Lord's Table was not established on the night He was betrayed is to do much harm to the doctrines of the Church. I will have no further discussion with you on the matter, and withdraw the hand of fellowship from you. Feel free to ignore me going forward.

[Marilyn C]

11 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

That is exactly what Paul teaches in 1 Co 11. His point is that the Body of Christ was, in fact, established at the Last Supper. The fact that Paul is the one to proclaim it doesn't change the fact of when this was established. 

If you insist on teaching what Paul calls a heresy, I would beg that @George would fully review this exchange and how such a teaching aligns with the forum's articles of faith. To teach and believe that the Lord's Table was not established on the night He was betrayed is to do much harm to the doctrines of the Church. I will have no further discussion with you on the matter, and withdraw the hand of fellowship from you. Feel free to ignore me going forward.

We both agree that the Lord`s Table was established at the Last Supper, but I do NOT see that Jesus told them about the New Man, His spiritual Body. That truth He revealed to the Apostle Paul as I quoted from Eph. 3: 3 - 6. These scriptures you seem to ignore.

[Mr. M]

40 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

We both agree that the Lord`s Table was established at the Last Supper, but I do NOT see that Jesus told them about the New Man, His spiritual Body. That truth He revealed to the Apostle Paul as I quoted from Eph. 3: 3 - 6. These scriptures you seem to ignore.

I am not ignoring anything, you are by claiming the Body of Christ is not mentioned in the Gospels. The fact of the matter is that Paul,who received the revelation from the Lord, establishes that the Body and the Table were established at the Last Supper.

Just because in that narrative, Jesus does not go on to say, "and later you will be joined by men of women of every nation" doesn't mean it is not so.

He did say:

John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

When Jesus tells Peter "feed my sheep", Peter did not think at that time that this would include Gentiles, he had to receive a special vision, which then led him to confirm that all nations were welcome at the Lord's Table, which is discussed in Acts 15, as I have already mentioned.

I am up in arms over this continual notion in many areas that the Gospels do not pertain to Gentiles, because Jesus was only addressing "the lost sheep of Israel", and Paul's teaching alone holds court. This is absurd. The Gospel of Luke was written by a Greek, in the Greek language, for all Gentiles, and anyone who does not receive every word of the Lord as addressing them is no 'theophilus'.

When Jesus said:

John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

Does this only apply to Jews, or "to the Jew first, and also the Gentile". Is this not a reference to the Lord's Table? Indeed.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Mr. M

[Marilyn C]

25 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

I am not ignoring anything, you are by claiming the Body of Christ is not mentioned in the Gospels. The fact of the matter is that Paul,who received the revelation from the Lord, establishes that the Body and the Table were established at the Last Supper.

Just because in that narrative, Jesus does not go on to say, "and later you will be joined by men of women of every nation" doesn't mean it is not so.

He did say:

John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

When Jesus tells Peter "feed my sheep", Peter did not think at that time that this would include Gentiles, he had to receive a special vision, which then led him to confirm that all nations were welcome at the Lord's Table, which is discussed in Acts 15, as I have already mentioned.

I am up in arms over this continual notion in many areas that the Gospels do not pertain to Gentiles, because Jesus was only addressing "the lost sheep of Israel", and Paul's teaching alone holds court. This is absurd. The Gospel of Luke was written by a Greek, in the Greek language, for all Gentiles, and anyone who does not receive every word of the Lord as addressing them is no 'theophilus'.

When Jesus said:

John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

Does this only apply to Jews, or "to the Jew first, and also the Gentile". Is this not a reference to the Lord's Table? Indeed.

Yes we agree that the Lord`s Supper is for all, however that revelation was NOT known then. And you haven`t proved it was.

[Mr. M]

19 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

The Body of Christ was not known or written about in the Gospels. It has to do with Israel and the nations.

Now you are changing the story. Here is your original statement. The Body of Christ was without a doubt known in the Gospels, that it would include Gentiles was not fully understood by those whom it was spoken of, but I just quoted Jesus from John 10 where He stated that there would be others added to become One Flock.

The Body of Christ is established and proclaimed in all four Gospels at the last supper, the fact that the Lord's Table would include Gentiles comes later, and those who wrote the Gospels knew of this full well. They did not include this in the narrative of the Gospels because it was not common knowledge at the time the events took place. This is consistent with the Lord proclaiming "I have come but for the lost sheep of Israel".

Your are making two statements, one, the Body of Christ is not known or written about in the Gospels, which is false. That is was not fully understood at that time that it would include Gentiles, sure. But there will always remain that there is One Body, One Spirit, One Table. The fact that the full realization comes later does not change that it was known and established in the Gospels. Paul also makes it clear that blindness was upon Israel to establish God's Purpose, which would be to bring the Gospel to the world.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The Lord who brought His Gospel knew it would be received in all nations, and that is recorded in every Gospel. It was also clearly prophesied by the Spirit of Christ in Isaiah 40-66. Mission accomplished.

[Marilyn C]

34 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

 

The Body of Christ is established and proclaimed in all four Gospels at the last supper, the fact that the Lord's Table would include Gentiles comes later, and those who wrote the Gospels knew of this full well.

`How that by revelation He made known to me the mystery ....which in other ages was NOT made known to the sons of men,....that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body,...` (Eph. 3: 3 - 6)

[WilliamL]

19 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So you are going beyond the description of it just being an earthly king, you are saying it is a `spirit-king.` However, it seems you don`t believe it is Lucifer/Satan.

I disagree as the details clearly show that this spirit-king was Lucifer.

`You were the seal of perfection. Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God: every precious stone was you covering...(High priest) ...the workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created, (music)...You were the anointed cherub who covers (God`s holiness): I established you;

You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of the fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you....Therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God...` (Ez. 28: 12 - 16)

Nothing in this passage provides any reason to believe this is Satan, Lucifer to you. Satan is still at work, whereas this spirit was destroyed long ago:

28:18 "...I brought fire from your midst, it devoured you... 19 ...You ... shall be no more forever."

 

[AdHoc]

23 hours ago, Mr. M said:

That is exactly what Paul teaches in 1 Co 11. His point is that the Body of Christ was, in fact, established at the Last Supper. The fact that Paul is the one to proclaim it doesn't change the fact of when this was established. 

If you insist on teaching what Paul calls a heresy, I would beg that @George would fully review this exchange and how such a teaching aligns with the forum's articles of faith. To teach and believe that the Lord's Table was not established on the night He was betrayed is to do much harm to the doctrines of the Church. I will have no further discussion with you on the matter, and withdraw the hand of fellowship from you. Feel free to ignore me going forward.

But brother, you remove the very reason we are here - to learn. If everyone who holds a wrong notion is removed from fellowship, where then is the unity of the Spirit (Eph.4:3)? This unity is established BEFORE the unity of the faith is achieved (Eph.4:13).

[Mr. M]

2 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

But brother, you remove the very reason we are here - to learn. If everyone who holds a wrong notion is removed from fellowship, where then is the unity of the Spirit (Eph.4:3)? This unity is established BEFORE the unity of the faith is achieved (Eph.4:13).

Hopefully someone will in viewing the discussion.

I didn't remove anybody, I asked that the talking

points be reviewed against a statement of faith,

until which time I wanted to suspend communication,

which was the advice I was given early on by

the staff of this forum, to simply ignore someone.

Saying that Paul revealed the mystery that 

the Gentiles are a part of Body of Christ

is stating the obvious. Saying the Body of Christ

was not known in the Gospels is obvious error,

yet this could not be received in spite of the gravity

of the topic. The Body of Christ and the NC are

proclaimed at the Last Supper. To diminish the

significance of this TRUTH among the Gentiles

is clearly stated by Paul to be heresy, a failure

to discern the Body of Christ, and a cause of 

early demise among the Saints. I published all

of this to no avail. Until your post, I was done

with the thread and the topic, but out of respect

for your concerns, I have re-stated mine.

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Hopefully someone will in viewing the discussion.

I didn't remove anybody, I asked that the talking

points be reviewed against a statement of faith,

until which time I wanted to suspend communication,

which was the advice I was given early on by

the staff of this forum, to simply ignore someone.

Saying that Paul revealed the mystery that 

the Gentiles are a part of Body of Christ

is stating the obvious. Saying the Body of Christ

was not known in the Gospels is obvious error,

yet this could not be received in spite of the gravity

of the topic. The Body of Christ and the NC are

proclaimed at the Last Supper. To diminish the

significance of this TRUTH among the Gentiles

is clearly stated by Paul to be heresy, a failure

to discern the Body of Christ, and a cause of 

early demise among the Saints. I published all

of this to no avail. Until your post, I was done

with the thread and the topic, but out of respect

for your concerns, I have re-stated mine.

Thank you for your reply. I hereby paste the text you stand on;

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. 34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. (1 Co 11:23–34)

I have highlighted two verses in red. In verse 28 it commanded that the "examination" of Christian just before he eats and drinks of the symbols is made by himself. That s, him knowing his condition, and the indwelling Holy Spirit enlightening him, he may judge himself. Then, the text goes further to command "and SO let him eat". That is, in the condition HE FINDS HIMSELF he MUST eat. Abstaining is not an option - just as the Jew MUST eat the Passover, or be cut off.

The way I see it is that you, (with good intent no doubt) have replaced him as judge. But the command is "self-judgment" and sickness and death are the consequences - not broken fellowship. Broken fellowship is to avoid the spread of Leaven, not to cure the inner motives and understanding of a spiritual condition. Have you ever noticed that in the following text, even those who claimed to follow CHRIST are labelled as carnal if they DIVIDE themselves.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
....
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?. (1 Cor.1:10–13, 3:1–4).

I point all this out knowing full well my own failures.