douggg Posted March 4 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Charlie744 said: He does not give us “general” theories or prophecies. Let me know if you are willing to put in the work… so far, I have offered to walk through chapter 2 verses with at least 3 other folks in this forum and they all declined.. they were happy with their accepting they speak to the end times. The little horn theory as being the office of the pope - the papacy - is a general theory because it does not speak to a specific person, an individual, who will be broken in Daniel 8:25 which he will be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus's Second Coming. The specific person, not an office of generality, goes through 5 stages on the way to his demise when he attempts to stand up against the Princes of princes, Jesus, in Daniel 8:25. The 5 stages about the person that God has presented in bible are fundamental... in order to understand Daniel 2, 7, 9, 11, 12. 1. as the little horn 2. as the prince who shall come 3. as the Antichrist 4. as the revealed man of sin 5. as the beast king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted March 4 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,671 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 860 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4 16 minutes ago, douggg said: The little horn theory as being the office of the pope - the papacy - is a general theory because it does not speak to a specific person, an individual, who will be broken in Daniel 8:25 which he will be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus's Second Coming. The specific person, not an office of generality, goes through 5 stages on the way to his demise when he attempts to stand up against the Princes of princes, Jesus, in Daniel 8:25. The 5 stages about the person that God has presented in bible are fundamental... in order to understand Daniel 2, 7, 9, 11, 12. 1. as the little horn 2. as the prince who shall come 3. as the Antichrist 4. as the revealed man of sin 5. as the beast king Okay and thanks Doug. I got your answer. Best wishes, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted March 4 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: Okay and thanks Doug. I got your answer. Best wishes, Charlie Charlie, if you want to do a walk-though, create yourself a blog. Which others cannot comment on your walk-through. At a discussion forum like this one, which interactive communications are done, there are others who differ with your walk through fundamental basis, who are going to point out the fallacies. Since no-one has taken you up on your walk-through, that should give you some indication that no-one here agrees will the fundamental basis. So, imo, I would abandon the walk-through offer, because the type of persons who post in a thread like this are well-read on eschatology parts of the bible, and have their own position. If you go to an SDA specific site and discussion forum, your offer of a walk-through, to support the theory of the little horn being the papacy, would be more receptive to them. Edited March 4 by douggg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted March 4 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,671 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 860 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4 5 minutes ago, douggg said: Charlie, if you want to do a walk-though, create yourself a blog. Which others cannot comment on your walk-through. At a discussion forum like this one, which interactive communications are done, there are others who differ with your walk through fundamental basis, who are going to point out the fallacies. Since no-one has taken you up on your walk-through, that should give you some indication that no-one here agrees will the fundamental basis. So, imo, I would abandon the walk-through offer, because the type of persons who posts in a thread like this are well-read on eschatology parts of the bible, and have their own position. If you go to an SDA specific site and discussion forum, you offer of a walk-through, to support the theory of the little horn being the papacy, would be more receptive to them. I completely disagree. This is a perfect place to discuss someone’s interpretation- whether it begins at a chapter level, a series of verses within a chapter, or discuss an individual verse. I have asked you to discuss verse 2:34 only. I have asked you to discuss verses 2:41-44 only (take them one at a time). This IS the perfect forum to learn WHY others have a different interpretation—NOT JUST PROVIDE A GENERAL COMMENT TO COVER EVERYTHING- “it must be an end time event.” I will give you another opportunity- not to go into a long detailed explanation of Daniel, but just a carve out of a verse or two. Breakdown 2:41 for me. What is God revealing to us? Who are the actors within this ONE VERSE and what are the events in this verse telling us? When is the timing of this verse? Break it down and explain what this is all about.. And please, no general conclusion that this is simply an end time event. You should already have these questions answered in order to come to your “end time” conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted March 4 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4 32 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: I have asked you to discuss verse 2:34 only. I have asked you to discuss verses 2:41-44 only (take them one at a time). This IS the perfect forum to learn WHY others have a different interpretation—NOT JUST PROVIDE A GENERAL COMMENT TO COVER EVERYTHING- “it must be an end time event.” Charlie, Daniel 2:34-35, is about the kingdom of God when the kingdom of Heaven is brought to earth by Jesus at His Second Coming, smashing the feet of the image, toppling it, breaking it into pieces to become dust in the wind. And the kingdom of God filling the whole earth for the millennial reign of Jesus on this earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted March 4 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4 35 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: Breakdown 2:41 for me. What is God revealing to us? Who are the actors within this ONE VERSE and what are the events in this verse telling us? When is the timing of this verse? The timing of Daniel 2:41 is time of the end, when Jesus returns, when the Roman empire manifested in the end times as the EU. The little horn will be the leader of a council of ten EU leaders. And after the little horn then goes through the prince that shall come stage, then the Antichrist stage, then the revealed man of sin stage, to being the beast-king stage. In the beast-king stage he will be dictator of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted March 4 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,671 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 860 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4 14 minutes ago, douggg said: Charlie, Daniel 2:34-35, is about the kingdom of God when the kingdom of Heaven is brought to earth by Jesus at His Second Coming, smashing the feet of the image, toppling it, breaking it into pieces to become dust in the wind. And the kingdom of God filling the whole earth for the millennial reign of Jesus on this earth. No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted March 4 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,671 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 860 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4 4 minutes ago, douggg said: The timing of Daniel 2:41 is time of the end, when Jesus returns, when the Roman empire manifested in the end times as the EU. The little horn will be the leader of a council of ten EU leaders. And after the little horn then goes through the prince that shall come stage, then the Antichrist stage, then the revealed man of sin stage, to being the beast-king stage. In the beast-king stage he will be dictator of the EU. I don’t think so. Who is the clay? Who is the iron? Who is the feet? What are the pottery clay? What kingdom shall be divided? Why is it divided? What caused this division? What is the kingdom of iron and clay? What is the kingdom of clay and iron? What is meant by the “strength of iron shall be in it just as…. ? There is a very detailed story / prophecy within this one verse… AND it can only take place during one time in our history - why is that? ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS PROVIDE A VERY SPECIFIC PROPHECY - NOT A GENERAL AND UNPROVEN COMMENT. I don’t see an “anti/Christ” figure anywhere in this verse, do you? In fact, there is NO anti-Christ figure found in ANY book of the Scriptures. Come on Doug, be specific. What is God revealing to us? I don’t see the EU here? These “stages” you mention.. I don’t see them in this one verse! There are no stages of the “little horn.” However, he (papacy) is identified as the “prince to come,” but that is not found in this verse. Just break down THIS ONE VERSE. There is enough in this ONE VERSE to write a long paragraph explaining it alone. Just this one verse Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggg Posted March 4 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,143 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 220 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/18/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: I don’t think so. Who is the clay? Who is the iron? Who is the feet? What are the pottery clay? What kingdom shall be divided? Why is it divided? What caused this division? What is the kingdom of iron and clay? What is the kingdom of clay and iron? What is meant by the “strength of iron shall be in it just as…. ? There is a very detailed story / prophecy within this one verse… AND it can only take place during one time in our history - why is that? ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS PROVIDE A VERY SPECIFIC PROPHECY - NOT A GENERAL AND UNPROVEN COMMENT. I don’t see an “anti/Christ” figure anywhere in this verse, do you? In fact, there is NO anti-Christ figure found in ANY book of the Scriptures. Come on Doug, be specific. What is God revealing to us? I don’t see the EU here? These “stages” you mention.. I don’t see them in this one verse! There are no stages of the “little horn.” However, he (papacy) is identified as the “prince to come,” but that is not found in this verse. Just break down THIS ONE VERSE. There is enough in this ONE VERSE to write a long paragraph explaining it alone. Just this one verse Doug. The clay is the weaker nations of the EU. And the iron is the stronger nations of the EU. The strength of the iron is the military ability of the stronger nations of the EU. Quote There is a very detailed story / prophecy within this one verse… AND it can only take place during one time in our history - why is that? At the time of Jesus's Second Coming. So people will not be confused into thinking the papacy is the little horn. And thereby developing a theory about pagan Rome and papal Rome to support their notion of the papacy being the little horn. Edited March 4 by douggg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted March 4 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,671 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 860 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4 17 minutes ago, douggg said: The clay is the weaker nations of the EU. And the iron is the stronger nations of the EU. The strength of the iron is the military ability of the stronger nations of the EU. At the time of Jesus's Second Coming. So people will not be confused into thinking the papacy is the little horn. And thereby developing a theory about pagan Rome and papal Rome to support their notion of the papacy being the little horn. Well, once again you resort to such a general and unsupported comment- end time. There were no less than 7-10 very specific actors or events mentioned within this one verse yet you did not identify any one of them and provided no basis for your EU comment. I will not repeat all the questions I posed to you for this one verse because I understand you have not attempted to study these verses. And that is the same for most folks… Daniel is simply too difficult to unpack and that is why everyone piggy backs on what their predecessor came up with..— with the one great method to escape having to explain these very difficult verses- must be end time verses. They are not end time verses and I would ask you to try and provide your reasoning for each of the actors and events in this one verse. Be specific Doug! Perhaps you might be able to identify who the kingdom of iron and clay is compared to the kingdom of clay and iron? Be specific, God was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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