abcdef Posted March 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 12 On 2/4/2024 at 3:34 PM, WilliamL said: Lotta claims, no real scriptural evidence to back it all up; just spec. Isn't pretrib speculation? Future 7 year events that have not taken place yet? I believe that I have more than just speculation, at this point in time. Part of the reason that people don't see what is happening right in front of them is that they are stuck on the 7 year timeline. Another reason is that some see events of the past as future. One example would be that some see Matt 24 as about 70 AD Jerusalem and others see it as future. But which is it? I see it as 70 AD, but in addition in certain places, it leads us from that time, to our present time as shown in the Matt 25 judgment scene. The 2 chapters are acutally one complete timeline from 70 AD until the resurrection when Jesus comes for the kingdom. A third reason is that some take the symbols as literal, making the symbol as literal instead of seeing what the symbols represent. It is not the symbols that are the meaning, it is what the symbols represent, that is the subject. On 2/4/2024 at 3:34 PM, WilliamL said: The End Times, from the first of the seals to the last of the bowls, is going to last many, many years. The 7 seals begin in 37 AD when Israel rejected thee new covenant and end in 70 AD. The 7 sealed book was opened after 70 AD, after Jerusalem was destroyed and the people of Israel were scattered into the gentile nations, Dan 12:4 & 7. The trumpets begin after 70 Ad and continue after that. 6 trumpets have been blown until now, only the 7th remains. The 7 vials/bowls run parallel to the 7 trumpets, 70 AD forwards, but are centered on the beast. Six vials/bowls have been poured out, only the 7th remains. Not only do they last years, they last for centuries. On 2/4/2024 at 3:34 PM, WilliamL said: Here is one place to start understanding some of it: 64. Egypt, Part 1: Its Coming 40-Year Desolation Provides the evidence, from rarely-quoted biblical End Time prophecies, that reveals the length of, and details about, God’s coming End Time judgment of and later healing of Egypt. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2753-egypt-part-1-its-coming-40-year-desolation/ 65. Egypt, Part 2: Its Coming “Cruel Master” Shows in more detail how Egypt’s judgment relates to coming events in the Middle East that lead up to the Parousia of Christ. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2763-egypt-part-2-its-coming-cruel-master/ From what I read in the Matthew Henry commentary, the 40 years are the time after Babylon conquered Egypt. The drying of the river is showing the missing power of the people of Egypt, as the king of Egypt is symbolized as a crocodile and his advisors as hang on to his scales. An event from the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 12 How long will it be until people realize that Jerusalem is about to fall? Maybe years, but maybe only a matter of months, I don't know. If American aid and support are ended, then the fall will be shortly after that. Israel, 1/2 the size of the Netherlands, 1/2 the size of Belgium. The Nazis took the Netherlands in only 2 weeks, Israel is half that size, one week? The forces at work against the children of Israel are getting stronger with more support. Maybe after the American elections whoever has power will cut off aid. The American government has already blocked aid for the children of Israel. In the future it will be harder to get funding as those who oppose Israel get stronger. This situation is parallel to prophecy in that restored Jerusalem will fall to the kings of the east and their allies, 6th trumpet/6th vial. I guess that most will not recognize this until after Jerusalem falls. Then the prophecy of the virgins who lack oil and go to buy it will be fulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted March 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 11 minutes ago, abcdef said: If American aid and support are ended, then the fall will be shortly after that. That's assuming God has no say so in the matter. Things may end up working out differently than we imagine they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 13 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 13 On 3/12/2024 at 9:40 AM, FJK said: That's assuming God has no say so in the matter. God has already told us what will happen. It is our place to understand what He has told us in a language that is thousands of years old. If God says that restored Jerusalem will fall from being attacked by the kings of the east from across the Euphrates River then that is what will happen, that is what is happening right now. Jerusalem will fall, the children of Israel will be ended, and then the 7th trumpet will sound, the 7th vial/bowl will be poured out, and the fire from heaven will destroy this planet and all material human life. The stone strikes the statue of Dan 2. ------------- Jerusalem was restored in 1967 ish. Since that time the gospel of the new covenant has been preached there with many children of Israel entering into the ark of the covenant. At the same time there are many who have rejected the new covenant. It has now been 55 years since the restoration. When Jerusalem was attacked years before it was because of unbelief. There has been time for the children of Israel to respond to the new covenant gospel. Will there unbelief, now be called out again? Will they be held accountable again for rejecting the gospel even after the prophecy fulfillment of the restoration of Jerusalem? It now appears that Israel has again rejected the new covenant gospel. Not all of the children of Israel, but not enough, it seems. --- The scroll of Rev 10 & 11 is sweet and then bitter. John understands that Jerusalem will be restored, but then it will fall again. then this planet is fire, followed by the judgment Rev 11:18. On 3/12/2024 at 9:40 AM, FJK said: Things may end up working out differently than we imagine they will. There is one outstanding reality that makes our time different than all other times, Jerusalem is restored. Understanding this timeline anchor is one key to Revelation. Knowing that there are only 2 resurrections is another, 1 Cor 15:23-28. Knowing what prophecies are past and which are future is also key. ----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted March 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted March 13 7 minutes ago, abcdef said: God has already told us what will happen. It is our place to understand what He has told us in a language that is thousands of years old. If God says that restored Jerusalem will fall from being attacked by the kings of the east from across the Euphrates River then that is what will happen, that is what is happening right now. Jerusalem will fall, the children of Israel will be ended, and then the 7th trumpet will sound, the 7th vial/bowl will be poured out, and the fire from heaven will destroy this planet and all material human life. The stone strikes the statue of Dan 2. ------------- Jerusalem was restored in 1967 ish. Since that time the gospel of the new covenant has been preached there with many children of Israel entering into the ark of the covenant. At the same time there are many who have rejected the new covenant. It has now been 55 years since the restoration. When Jerusalem was attacked years before it was because of unbelief. There has been time for the children of Israel to respond to the new covenant gospel. Will there unbelief, now be called out again? Will they be held accountable again for rejecting the gospel even after the prophecy fulfillment of the restoration of Jerusalem? It now appears that Israel has again rejected the new covenant gospel. Not all of the children of Israel, but not enough, it seems. --- The scroll of Rev 10 & 11 is sweet and then bitter. John understands that Jerusalem will be restored, but then it will fall again. then this planet is fire, followed by the judgment Rev 11:18. There is one outstanding reality that makes our time different than all other times, Jerusalem is restored. Understanding this timeline anchor is one key to Revelation. Knowing that there are only 2 resurrections is another, 1 Cor 15:23-28. Knowing what prophecies are past and which are future is also key. ----- Time may not work the same in God's world as it is perceived to work in man's world. I don't think it can be derived from the Bible how long Israel will stand after it -and Jerusalem- are restored. It could be months from now or hundreds of years from now. Personally I think it could be soon, but I don't predict it will be since I am not privileged to know what God's intentions and plans for the timing of it are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted March 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted March 13 On 3/12/2024 at 7:18 AM, abcdef said: From what I read in the Matthew Henry commentary, the 40 years are the time after Babylon conquered Egypt. The drying of the river is showing the missing power of the people of Egypt... Entirely unhistorical claims, having nothing to do with the scriptures I cited. But you may believe whatever you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 14 9 hours ago, FJK said: Time may not work the same in God's world as it is perceived to work in man's world. Time is relative to God. God is in all places throughout all time at once. Beginning, end, and in between, all in the same moment for Him, possibly, as it appears to me. He has communicated to us events that take place in our past and future. These events are described in universal and scriptural symbols. These symbols and events have timelines and order. It is the correct understanding of these communications that give us their place in the timelines, past and future. The events are already there in the Revelation, it is a matter of placing the anchors in the timelines with dates. One example might be when Jesus was born, 1 AD ish, or when the first resurrection takes place, Jesus in 33 AD. These timelines from the past sometimes extend into the future. Rev 12 is a good example. The child being born is Jesus in 1 AD. Then Jesus is caught up to heaven 33 AD. The faithful woman Israel flees from the Roman beast into the wilderness of the gentile nations 70 AD. She returns to Jerusalem after her time in the wilderness has ended, 1967 AD, about 1900 years. It turns out the 3 1/2 and 1260 are symbolic and not literal. This is now confirmed by the timeline anchor of the restoration of Jerusalem in 1967 after the times of the gentiles is fulfilled LK 21:24. So while prophecies from the past are not specific in the years of men, they are specific about the order of the events. Events that are recognized become anchors for dates as the birth of Jesus is shown in Rev 12. The events surrounding our present situation with the children of Israel and their enemies puts more anchoring dates in the timeline, such as the forces from across the Euphrates River attacking restored Jerusalem at the 6th trumpet. 9 hours ago, FJK said: I don't think it can be derived from the Bible how long Israel will stand after it -and Jerusalem- are restored. It could be months from now or hundreds of years from now. Personally I think it could be soon, I agree that the future of the timelines in the years of men cannot be measured. The events taking place now are showing the imminent return of Jesus for the kingdom at the 7th trumpet. In the 6th trumpet the armies are headed for Jerusalem. The 7th trumpet is not long after that. 9 hours ago, FJK said: but I don't predict it will be since I am not privileged to know what God's intentions and plans for the timing of it are. You are privileged to know what God's intentions are. You have the Bible. You believe in the resurrection. We may disagree about some details, but generally most people agree that we are seeking eternal life with Jesus and His love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 14 4 hours ago, WilliamL said: Entirely unhistorical claims, having nothing to do with the scriptures I cited. But you may believe whatever you like. Entirely unhistorical claims? Did you even go and read what the Matthew Henry commentary said on the verses that you referenced? I thought that he had good support for his opinion. If I misunderstood you I am sorry, it may be that you could be more specific about the point that you want to make. To me, it seemed that you were saying that Jesus could not come for the kingdom until after Egypt had gone through the things you referenced, 40 years of a harsh ruler and the Nile drying up. Is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Author Share Posted March 14 The American government has still not passed the aid for Israel. If this support is never passed, it may be, that this will lead to Jerusalem falling. Those who oppose this support hate Israel, that is, have no love for the children of Israel, have less love for Israel, than they should. Everyday that they wait makes things more critical. Why aren't they passing the support for the defense of Israel? The powers against Israel are growing. The end of this matter is bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted March 14 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14 8 hours ago, abcdef said: You are privileged to know what God's intentions are. You have the Bible. You believe in the resurrection. We may disagree about some details, but generally most people agree that we are seeking eternal life with Jesus and His love. I said things a little unclearly, when talking about God's intentions I was mot intending to refer to the eventual outcome, which id definitely well shown in the Bible, but to his immediate intentions regarding the events of today and how they fit into the scheme of things in the sense of our experience of time sequences. An example of the way confusion can arise by using current events as an absolute for the timing of God's plan is shown by the sequential and non-sequential interpretations of the 70 weeks of Daniel (9:24-27) which have been used many times in different ways. Always. I keep in mind things like hearing a preacher on the radio around 30years back (during the Clinton administration) that was absolutely certain that the final 7 years had begun and we would see all fulfilled by around 2000 or shortly after. As always he turned out wrong, you can look back throughout history and see many, many people predicting with what they felt was absolute certainty that we were on the immediate edge of all the prophecies being fulfilled and the return of Christ, this is true over the last 100's or thousand's of years as even during the first decades after the ascension of Christ people were thinking this, yet we have a several thousand history of all of them being wrong. Trying to predict any prophetic fulfillment as imminent based on current world political, social and cultural conditions is not the wisest of things to be doing since it always seems to mutate form "this could be it" to "this is it" and when it turn out wrong it damages or destroys the faith of many who believed in it. The way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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