Some Israel Eschatological Passages

[WordSword]

Some Israel Eschatological Passages

Isa 4:2, 3; 26:19
Dan 12:1-3
Eze 20:33, 34; 37:1-4, 11-14

“It requires no profound study to observe that the earthly, Messianic, Davidic kingdom was offered by John the Baptist, by Christ and by His disciples, that it was rejected even to the murder of John the Baptist and the crucifixion of the King, and that it was not set up in connection with the first dispensation, nor is it being set up in the present dispensation (but is for the millennial kingdom, which in my suspicion is for Christ and His Body to teach Israel for a thousand years—NC). Nevertheless, every oath-bound covenant of Jehovah will yet be consummated, His kingdom will come, and His bidding be done on earth as it is in heaven (this is in reference to the millennial kingdom on the old earth prior to the new earth; the difference is shown between His will in heaven being also done on the earth—NC).

“The Church does not appear in the OT. As something new (and eternal in the new heaven—NC) in God’s provision for Jew and Gentile, the true Church and some of its unique characteristics are spoken of by Paul as “mysteries.” These mysteries were withheld from the OT saints, but are freely revealed to NT saints, hence the Church is not found in the OT. These mysteries include the Church itself, its Head, its message of grace, the Body of Christ as an organism made up of saved Jews and Gentiles, indwelt by Christ as the “hope of glory” (Col 1:27), its ministry controlled by the Lord Jesus Himself, its ultimate removal from the earthly scene by resurrection or “translation” (Heb 11:5), and its approaching marriage as the Bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9 - the Spirit and the Bride are in the holy city, new Jerusalem “saying come”). Not a hint of these things appears in the OT. On the contrary, this is the ethnic group (Christian Jews and Gentiles—NC) which the Lord Jesus spoke of when He said, “I will build My Church”; an accomplishment which was still future at the time of it announcement. Never does Scripture confuse it with Israel—past, future or present.” —L S Chafer (1871-1952)

[SpiritSong]

I believe the church is the prodigal son and Israel is the older brother. In Abraham and his seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

 

I don't think we have taken Israel's place, but that rather the Lord desires us to be one together in him. It is a mystery indeed, a beautiful one.

 

God has not utterly rejected Israel, He always preserves a remnant for Himself.

 

I have always wondered about the lost tribes, what do you think happened to them? 

 

We can discuss in another thread if answering that question would derail this one, but that is another mystery for sure.

 

Be blessed 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[D. Adrien]

Acts 7, Stephen refers to the congregation in the wilderness. 1Cor. 10:11 states that what happened in the wilderness was an example for the church today.

Perhaps in God's view the church of this era is an extension of Israel in the wilderness. For it is also written somewhere that Christians have been grafted onto the vine and that we are all spiritual Jews if indeed the Holy Spirit dwells within you.

[AdHoc]

20 hours ago, WordSword said:

Some Israel Eschatological Passages

Isa 4:2, 3; 26:19
Dan 12:1-3
Eze 20:33, 34; 37:1-4, 11-14

“It requires no profound study to observe that the earthly, Messianic, Davidic kingdom was offered by John the Baptist, by Christ and by His disciples, that it was rejected even to the murder of John the Baptist and the crucifixion of the King, and that it was not set up in connection with the first dispensation, nor is it being set up in the present dispensation (but is for the millennial kingdom, which in my suspicion is for Christ and His Body to teach Israel for a thousand years—NC). Nevertheless, every oath-bound covenant of Jehovah will yet be consummated, His kingdom will come, and His bidding be done on earth as it is in heaven (this is in reference to the millennial kingdom on the old earth prior to the new earth; the difference is shown between His will in heaven being also done on the earth—NC).

“The Church does not appear in the OT. As something new (and eternal in the new heaven—NC) in God’s provision for Jew and Gentile, the true Church and some of its unique characteristics are spoken of by Paul as “mysteries.” These mysteries were withheld from the OT saints, but are freely revealed to NT saints, hence the Church is not found in the OT. These mysteries include the Church itself, its Head, its message of grace, the Body of Christ as an organism made up of saved Jews and Gentiles, indwelt by Christ as the “hope of glory” (Col 1:27), its ministry controlled by the Lord Jesus Himself, its ultimate removal from the earthly scene by resurrection or “translation” (Heb 11:5), and its approaching marriage as the Bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9 - the Spirit and the Bride are in the holy city, new Jerusalem “saying come”). Not a hint of these things appears in the OT. On the contrary, this is the ethnic group (Christian Jews and Gentiles—NC) which the Lord Jesus spoke of when He said, “I will build My Church”; an accomplishment which was still future at the time of it announcement. Never does Scripture confuse it with Israel—past, future or present.” —L S Chafer (1871-1952)

The first grand difference between the Church and Israel is ORIGIN. In Genesis 1:11-12 God set forth the Law of "KINDS". This law holds till today. Cats have kittens, dogs have puppies and a dog and a fox will not bring forth offspring, being different KINDS. The ORIGIN of Israel is the flesh (Rom.9:3-4). Although God intervened in a barren womb, the way to Isaac, Jacob and even our Lord Jesus, was via the flesh (Rom.1:3). The Church is taken FROM the Nations and FROM the Nation of Israel ("the Twain" - Eph.2:15) but is a totally New Creature (2nd Cor.5:17). It is born, " ... not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Pe 1:22–23)

A number of arguments are put forward to justify making them one in the end, but these fall short. The most attractive of these is the Olive Tree of Romans 11. But an accurate reading annuls it. Israel cannot be the Tree. They are sad by scripture to be the natural branches. A Tree in parable is a king and his kingdom (Judges 9, Daniel 4, Ezekiel 31). And the root /stem is "holy". Only Jesus is called holy (Lk.1:35). Furthermore, Israel is cut out of the Tree in this age - the kingdom having been taken away from them (Matt.21:43).

It is proposed that Galatians 6 shows Israel and the Church to be the same. Herewith the text;

 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, AND upon the Israel of God. 17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

However, both the context, the wording and the grammar forbid Israel and the Church being one. The CONTEXT of Galatians is a COMPARISON between Israel and the Church. COMPARED are grace and the Law, Hagar and Sarah, Isaac and Ishmael, and two conflicting Covenants. In only one verse, 4:26, do the two draw near - having the same MOTHER. Otherwise everything is CONTRASTED. Our text is no different. One is named "the circumcision", the other, "the UN-circumcision" - two distinct entities. The text, far from joining them, uses the word "AND". "The conjunction "and" is copulative, cumulative and sequential. It joins two or more things, it adds something, and it can set a sequence. Thus, "and" in verse 16 makes The New Man one entity and Israel another.

But it is also proposed that the Church must join Israel for its Commonwealth. But a Commonwealth exists exactly to avoid this. A Commonwealth is a union in trade privileges but not citizenship or judicial matters. A New Zealander enjoys trade privileges because of Britain, but he retains his citizenship and is subject to New Zealand Law. The Church is brought into a "Commonwealth with Israel but takes neither its citizenship nor Law.

Again, God brings the Church into the Covenant of PROMISE made with Abraham by two methods, neither of which make the Church Israel. In Galatians 3:29 Christ is a Seed of Abraham and if you belong to Christ you are, by extension, seed of Abraham. But this is double assured by God "ADOPTING" us. very man has a father. The question is though; "will you INHERIT"? Are you judicially secure in the will? Legal Adoption secures the inheritance of the Covenant made with Abraham WITHOUT being born to him.

Finally, Acts 15:14-16 shows unequivocally that the Church and Israel are separate entities. The Church must be complete before Israel is restored under David.

[WordSword]

19 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Finally, Acts 15:14-16 shows unequivocally that the Church and Israel are separate entities. The Church must be complete before Israel is restored under David.

Hi, and appreciate the information. It's my understanding that all that had to do with the law was "disannulled" (Heb 7:18). Jesus said the Law would pass away when He fulfilled it (Mat 5:18). It was replaced with the covenant of grace (new covenant - Heb 10:9).

I also fully agree with the above!

 

 

 

[farouk]

The veil of the temple was rent in two pieces after the Lord Jesus said 'It is finished' (John 19.30). Hebrews 7.12 says that the law was changed; and Hebrews 7,19 says that what we now have is better than the law. Hard to see how the church is supposedly an institutional continuity of Israel; in the institution of the Lord's Supper the Lord Jesus spoke of the 'new' testament in His blood.

[Ray12614]

10 minutes ago, WordSword said:

Hi, and appreciate the information. It's my understanding that all that had to do with the law was "disannulled" (Heb 7:18). Jesus said the Law would pass away when He fulfilled it (Mat 5:18). It was replaced with the covenant of grace (new covenant - Heb 10:9).

I also fully agree with the above!

 

Interesting topic . . . and one that I am not up to speed on as well . . . not saying that its not important, but, only that I have not considered it much.

How does all this affect me as an born-again believer? Clearly scripture says that I as an gentile believer have been grafted into the olive tree, and that I should not boast of any superiority to the natural branches that we cut off.

So . . . how does that affect my support of Israel ?   and also of other issues of this day we live in currently?

Ray . . . 

[WordSword]

5 hours ago, D. Adrien said:

Acts 7, Stephen refers to the congregation in the wilderness. 1Cor. 10:11 states that what happened in the wilderness was an example for the church today.

Perhaps in God's view the church of this era is an extension of Israel in the wilderness. For it is also written somewhere that Christians have been grafted onto the vine and that we are all spiritual Jews if indeed the Holy Spirit dwells within you.

Like what you said but not sure what you're trying to say. Thanks for the reply!

[WordSword]

5 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

Interesting topic . . . and one that I am not up to speed on as well . . . not saying that its not important, but, only that I have not considered it much.

How does all this affect me as an born-again believer? Clearly scripture says that I as an gentile believer have been grafted into the olive tree, and that I should not boast of any superiority to the natural branches that we cut off.

So . . . how does that affect my support of Israel ?   and also of other issues of this day we live in currently?

Ray . . . 

We are enjoined with the Jews who are Christians, but not with non-Christians (if that's what you were discussing).

[AdHoc]

3 minutes ago, WordSword said:

Hi, and appreciate the information. It's my understanding that all that had to do with the law was "disannulled" (Heb 7:18). Jesus said the Law would pass away when He fulfilled it (Mat 5:18). It was replaced with the covenant of grace (new covenant - Heb 10:9).

I also fully agree with the above!

 

 

 

If a Contract, or Covenant is made, it can only be annulled by mutual agreement (Gal.3:15). If one party breaks Covenant the penalties come into play with full force. If a Gentile converts to Christ, he has nothing to do with the Covenant of Law. But if a Jew converts he sheds the Covenant of La because he is reckoned as (i) having died with Christ, and (ii) he is a New Creator with "ALL things passed away" (2nd Cor.5:17). He has no past. But if a Jew refuses Christ, the Covenant continues as normal. Christ has fulfilled the Law, but Israel have not. Thus we have our Lord's statement in Matthew 5 that nothing of the Law will pass UNTIL heaven and earth pass. It applies ONLY to the Jew.

But the Law itself is problematic for it addresses the flesh. Written on stone tablets has proved ineffective. So God REPLACES the COVENANT (the Contract) while keeping the conditions of the contract intact. And Hebrews informs us that it is "BETTER". Why' Because God makes some changes to the Israelite.
1. He writes the Laws into the inward parts of the Israelite
2. Most of Israel are resurrected (Dan.12:1-2)
3. He gives the Israelite a new spirit and a new heart
4. He gives a a Redeemer Who is King and Who "takes ungodliness out of Israel"
5. He clears the conscience of former lawlessness by forgiveness

The Israelite of the Millennium will have the same Law. He will have a New Covenant (Jer.31:31-33) with the above improvements. He will intrinsically tend to keep the Law. This will remove the danger of coming under the curses again and losing the advantages of the Covenant made with Abraham.

Now, all vows and promises and Contracts between a holy God and fallen creature, must be RATIFIED in blood. Hebrews 9 deals with this. Blood was for TWO things. (i) The putting away of sin and sins, and (ii) the "purging" of those things dedicated to God. Two notable ones are here mentioned. (i) The Covenant and (ii) the Tabernacle. The New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 is only in force when the two "Houses" of Israel are united again. But it was RATIFIED on Golgotha. So Christ's blood, among other things, accomplished TWO MAIN POINTS. It is for the remission of sins AND it Ratifies the New Covenant. One applies to the Church and BOTH apply to Israel. Unfortunately, the Roman Church embraced "Kingdom Now" and "Replacement Theology" for 1,000 years, so we have a prevailing belief that the Church is partaker of the New Covenant. It is NOT. Jeremiah 31 is clear. The New Covenant is made with Israel alone, AND IS A COVENANT OF LAW.

What does happen to the Church is that Christ is our source and ORIGIN (Jn.12:24). We were, and are, IN Christ, and belong to Him. In this we become PARTAKERS of the Covenant made with Abraham (not with Moses- Gal.3:29). Christians will vehemently oppose this because we have 16 centuries of "leaven". But see for your self if there is a single verse putting the Church under a Covenant of Law.