obedientFool Posted March 30 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30 1. Consider the type of person, who appears to be the majority in society, who's easily convinced by mainstream beliefs. 2. Consider a person with a higher threshold for evidence before they might be convinced. What type of person is God looking for? According to Jesus, our faith should be like a child's - without convincing. But person type 1, will believe in Jesus to the same extent they would believe in another deity, atheism, etc. Without needing to be convinced. Does God really want a faith without a deep root? If person type 2, genuinely seeks for years and can't be convinced. Is it their fault for not having faith? Otherwise, what good is to God if we believe just to believe? When the same low threshold for belief is easily applied elsewhere - being a matter of what belief catches your attention first. The Bible says, faith comes by hearing the word of God. But the more I read, the more inconsistencies I find, with more unanswered questions, and the more I lose faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Adrien Posted March 30 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 464 Content Per Day: 4.55 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/22/2024 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30 (edited) 13 hours ago, obedientFool said: 1. Consider the type of person, who appears to be the majority in society, who's easily convinced by mainstream beliefs. 2. Consider a person with a higher threshold for evidence before they might be convinced. What type of person is God looking for? According to Jesus, our faith should be like a child's - without convincing. But person type 1, will believe in Jesus to the same extent they would believe in another deity, atheism, etc. Without needing to be convinced. Does God really want a faith without a deep root? If person type 2, genuinely seeks for years and can't be convinced. Is it their fault for not having faith? Otherwise, what good is to God if we believe just to believe? When the same low threshold for belief is easily applied elsewhere - being a matter of what belief catches your attention first. The Bible says, faith comes by hearing the word of God. But the more I read, the more inconsistencies I find, with more unanswered questions, and the more I lose faith. 1Cor. 1:26-28 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, Patience is helpful in waiting for answers. God's timetable never matches up with anybody's. Trust through trials deepens faith and answered prayers do the same. For prayers to be heard, obedience is required and this may look different from one person to the next. How has the Holy Spirit burdened you so that you can show obedience through action and have your prayers answered and gain confidence that God hears you? Edit: James 5:16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. Edited March 31 by D. Adrien Inserted James 5 quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obedientFool Posted March 30 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2022 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 30 13 minutes ago, D. Adrien said: 1Cor. 1:26-28 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, Patience is helpful in waiting for answers. God's timetable never matches up with anybody's. Trust through trials deepens faith and answered prayers do the same. For prayers to be heard, obedience is required and this may look different from one person to the next. How has the Holy Spirit burdened you so that you can show obedience through action and have your prayers answered and gain confidence that God hears you? Appreciate the effort in the response. But I don't find "just wait" to be a practical answer. I can easily have faith, if God requires faith with no evidence. But if I'm willing to believe in something without evidence, what's the point? There's no root. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Adrien Posted March 30 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 464 Content Per Day: 4.55 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/22/2024 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, obedientFool said: Appreciate the effort in the response. But I don't find "just wait" to be a practical answer. I can easily have faith, if God requires faith with no evidence. But if I'm willing to believe in something without evidence, what's the point? There's no root. Prophecy fulfilled is the proof of the existence of God. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies of the O.T. You do not find the mere state of humanity a proof of good and evil? Of prophesied wickedness? How about archeology? Edit: I've memorized the following from Voddie Baucham: I choose to believe the bible because it is a collection of historical documents written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses who report supernatural events in the fulfillment of specific prophecies claiming that they were words of divine origin rather than human in origin. Edited March 30 by D. Adrien #2 for language, #3 inject word "specific". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obedientFool Posted March 30 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2022 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 30 9 minutes ago, D. Adrien said: Prophecy fulfilled is the proof of the existence of God. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies of the O.T. You do not find the mere state of humanity a proof of good and evil? Of prophesied wickedness? How about archeology? Aside from the error of using the Bible to prove the Bible, a lot of the prophecies are vague and only evidence to the extent of the intricate interpretations. Objective morality was the original root of my faith, but the distinction between good and evil are merely based on feelings. Kids born into cultures where stealing, murder, rape are considered moral have contrary feelings. Archeology is mostly subject to interpretation. For example, yes we find evidence in a global flood. The Bible mentions the global flood. There's 2 explanations. Either God flooded the world, or there was a flood and someone attributed it to God. It's no different than: a volcano erupts today, I document it in a book and say God did it. In a few thousand years someone reads my book and says, "you see, God did it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Adrien Posted March 30 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 464 Content Per Day: 4.55 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/22/2024 Status: Offline Share Posted March 30 I have the sense you are seeking ways to justify your unbelief. I am saddened by your choice. Are you familiar with Hebrews 11? Often called the faith chapter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RdJ Posted March 30 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,128 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 640 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1970 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, obedientFool said: I can easily have faith, if God requires faith with no evidence. But if I'm willing to believe in something without evidence, what's the point? There's no root. How? How can you have that? I needed evidence to believe. But I was young, so I was easier to convince than for instance my dad. He was an atheist for decades. He could not just believe without proof. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. God uses the ones who are less complicated to save the ones who use their brain more. For instance we prayed for family to get healed and whoop the cancer was gone after prayer. My dad saw that. All I needed to see to come to faith was that I won with tennis and stuff like that. I tested God like that for a year as a teen. If I don't get an 8.3 for German I won't believe in God. Everything happened a year long. After a year I was convinced that He existed. And then I met Him. Oh what we often did with evangelizing was that if someone couldn't believe that God existed, just ask: Shall we pray for you that He reveals Himself to you? That worked. Seek and you will find. Edited March 30 by RdJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obedientFool Posted March 30 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 44 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2022 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 30 8 minutes ago, RdJ said: How? How can you have that? I needed evidence to believe. But I was young, so I was easier to convince than for instance my dad. He was an atheist for decades. He could not just believe without proof. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. God uses the ones who are less complicated to save the ones who use their brain more. For instance we prayed for family to get healed and whoop the cancer was gone after prayer. My dad saw that. All I needed to see to come to faith was that I won with tennis and stuff like that. I tested God like that for a year as a teen. If I don't get an 8.3 for German I won't believe in God. Everything happened a year long. After a year I was convinced that He existed. And then I met Him. Oh what we often did with evangelizing was that if someone couldn't believe that God existed, just ask: Shall we pray for you that He reveals Himself to you? That worked. Seek and you will find. I don't need proof to believe, but rather some reasonable evidence. But the more I look, the more questions I have. Specifically within the Bible, many inconsistencies. Like I said, I can easily believe with little to no evidence, but that makes for a weak ungrounded root. If my faith is placed in someone else's testimony, it's a weak faith. I'm not looking for a miracle, but for explanations. If you followed my other threads, those highlight some of the contentions. At one point I simply gave into them, and said 'I don't understand, it doesn't make sense, but I'll believe anyway'. Now those have caught up to me again, and the structure of the root is tested. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted March 31 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Online Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted March 31 Faith comes by hearing the word of God...but it also comes by seeing. It always astounds me people who say they see no evidence of God. Like really? The evidence is all around is. The evidence is in the Bible. Yes, the Bible can defend itself! If you started with blind faith, without seeking the evidence and are now losing it, was it really faith? It's ok to to ask for evidence. Gideon tested God by laying out a pelt, not once, not twice but three times! So let me help you...what area specifically are you struggling? What part of scripture do you find inconsistent? Name one part and let us pull out scripture together and strengthen your faith! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted March 31 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,832 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 31 Hi there Your questions are valid ,from an intellectual mind( carnal) but Faith is so much more than reason and even research and study.... and as you are trying to point out- grounded? I get what you're saying So ,I'm with @The_Patriot21 ,let us talk about what inconsistencies you have difficulty reconciling,let us reason together in the Hopes of lifting you up ,edification,clarification.... our HOPE Remains in Christ,if we ARE WHO we say we are then that is what we do- in His Love Friend,I believe what your referencing is the little measure of Faith that is your GIFT from God,like Patriot mentioned " a blind faith " but is that the Faith in which we are Saved? There's something greater than the evidence one searches for in documentation,historical facts and confirmations ..... it is PROOF that He Lives ,that the Living Word of God is the Way,the Truth and the Life and this comes by a sincere,repentant heart seeking GOD Himself,it comes through Relationship with God in Christ..... the Truth is Revealed by Holy Spirit When people say"Faith Comes by hearing the Word of God" are they talking about reading the Scriptures with one's carnal mind,listening to a preacher or (as you said" someone else's testimony")- not at all,that's a good start but is that how one's Faith is rooted,grounded and grows into maturity? It's Hearing,by the Power of Holy Spirit ,seeing with the Eyes of your heart,the Eyes of Understanding.... seeking God with all your heart,soul and mind He Will Reveal Himself❤️❤️❤️ We are here to listen,to talk-to point to the foot of the Cross With love in Christ,Kwik 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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