Genesis 1 - When was the Ice Age?

[teddyv]

8 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Is there any evidence from Scripture that God would create the earth in such minute stages that "primordial chaos" would be the starting point?

That doesn't sound anything like the rest of Genesis 1 where the text says:  "let there be" or "let them..." in v.3,6,9,11,14,15,20,24.  

In the Hebrew, it is merely "light, BE!!"  And it was so.  God didn't say anything about "letting".  He simply spoke into existence all the things in the verses cited above.

There is no evidence that God created the heavens and earth in stages, etc.

I'm not sure I follow what you are seeking to clarify. The chaos is the starting condition, nothingness, if you will.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

11 hours ago, other one said:

Maybe that's where some of the water of the flood went.

There's geological evidence that supports both Noah's Flood and Lucifer's Flood have left their marks on the Earth in Egypt and North America when those two global floods occurred, about 13,000 years between them.

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

FreeGrace said:

What I read is "face of the deep" and "face of the waters".  All in one verse.  Why wouldn't they be related;  the deep and the waters.  Seems kinda obvious to me.

What do you think is meant by the Holy Spirit hovering over the face of the waters?

Just because it's in the same verse doesn't they are the same.

Think of a deep ice pack.  Where would the "face" be located?  at the surface.  Now think of melting waters.  Where would the "face" be located?  at the surface.

Please answer my question.  About the Holy Spirit hovering over the face of the waters.

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

The lights and the expanse is in one verse doesn't mean they are related.

I don't mean like cousins.  Where are the light located?  In the expanse.

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

how can deep melt?

What a question.  It is the melting waters that are deep.  Just like the ice pack.

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Water can be in three states yet its water nonetheless rather solid liquid or gas.

Irrelevant.  I'm talking Gen 1:2.  Where are you?

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

It mentions darkness and that's where light was separated.

Your point?

[FreeGrace]

7 hours ago, teddyv said:

I'm not sure I follow what you are seeking to clarify. The chaos is the starting condition, nothingness, if you will.

Well, that's just the point.  If "nothingness", that is NOT chaos.  

The existence of chaos means that stuff is there.  In a chaotic condition.

With nothingness, there is nothing there.  The words are totally different.

There are 2 keys to Gen 1:2.  The wrong word "formless", which doesn't exist in any object.  According to sources, shape is 2 dimensions and form is 3 dimensions.

So, if you can see an object, you are seeing form.

So the KJV botched "tohu".  But research ALL 10 uses/translations of "tohu" in the OT and you will see what it really means.

Here, I'll do it for you.

chaos, desolation, futile, waste place (3), confusion, formless (2).  But Jer 4:23 cannot be ‘formless’ since it describes the total destruction of land by a besieging army that destroys nations (from context).  So should be 4 x for “wasteland/place”.  None of these words can be applied to original perfect creation of the earth.  ALL of these translations describe very negative conditions.

[other one]

8 hours ago, SavedOnebyGrace said:

Lucifer's Flood

I'm not familiar with this.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

The ice age did not occur in Genesis 1. It occurred during Noah's flood when the waters were covering the entire Earth. I'm not a scientist so I don't claim to understand why certain parts of the ocean were frozen, but they obviously were. Noah's flood occurred approximately 5,000 years ago, so there's my two cents on the matter.

[teddyv]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Well, that's just the point.  If "nothingness", that is NOT chaos.  

The existence of chaos means that stuff is there.  In a chaotic condition.

With nothingness, there is nothing there.  The words are totally different.

There are 2 keys to Gen 1:2.  The wrong word "formless", which doesn't exist in any object.  According to sources, shape is 2 dimensions and form is 3 dimensions.

So, if you can see an object, you are seeing form.

So the KJV botched "tohu".  But research ALL 10 uses/translations of "tohu" in the OT and you will see what it really means.

Here, I'll do it for you.

chaos, desolation, futile, waste place (3), confusion, formless (2).  But Jer 4:23 cannot be ‘formless’ since it describes the total destruction of land by a besieging army that destroys nations (from context).  So should be 4 x for “wasteland/place”.  None of these words can be applied to original perfect creation of the earth.  ALL of these translations describe very negative conditions.

This is why I said earlier that it is a literary symbol or allusion. It does not represent an actual historical state of the universe or earth. This is language that is consistent with the cosmology of the ancient Hebrews, as well as their contemporaries. Bringing and applying any modern concept to this language is adding to the text.

[FreeGrace]

49 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

The ice age did not occur in Genesis 1.

We don't know what happened between Gen 1:1 and v.2, other than that the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland, and the Holy Spirit "hovered over the face of the waters", indicating melting water from ice, which is referred to by the phrase "and darkness was on the face of the deep".  The "face" here would be the surface of an ice pack and a "deep" one.

49 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

It occurred during Noah's flood when the waters were covering the entire Earth.

How does that work?  If an ice age occurred "during Noah's flood", then Noah's ark would have been frozen tightly in the ice pack.  And everyone would have died.

49 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I'm not a scientist so I don't claim to understand why certain parts of the ocean were frozen, but they obviously were. Noah's flood occurred approximately 5,000 years ago, so there's my two cents on the matter.

ok.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

7 hours ago, other one said:

I'm not familiar with this.

That's a term @HAZARD has used before when he distinguishes between it (Lucifer's Flood) and  Noah's Flood. I see it as the flood caused by the Younger-Dryas ice age melt approximately 12,000 to 13,000 years ago as determined by ice cores. Evidence is shown by flood damage to the Spinx in Egypt and the Grand Canyon in the USA.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

We don't know what happened between Gen 1:1 and v.2, other than that the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland, and the Holy Spirit "hovered over the face of the waters", indicating melting water from ice, which is referred to by the phrase "and darkness was on the face of the deep".  The "face" here would be the surface of an ice pack and a "deep" one.

How does that work?  If an ice age occurred "during Noah's flood", then Noah's ark would have been frozen tightly in the ice pack.  And everyone would have died.

ok.

Well you know I have my doubts about the whole gap thing in Genesis 1. However even if your correct on that, it seems to me that water covering the earth for an entire year would melt any previous ice that would have been there. Plus there's no mention at all in Genesis that such I've existed. The oldest text that actually mentions an ice age is in the book of Job which many scholars believe was written around Abraham's time. It's impossible to be dogmatic on the subject because there's not enough information to know for sure. I'm just giving my opinion. I could always be wrong.