Vine Abider Posted April 19 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 201 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,458 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 2,317 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted April 19 I read this this morning and was reminded that it is only Christ in and through us Who has any profit, and of our own strength and energy we cannot build one thing concerning His church (that will stand through the testing fire)! How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? (Galatians 3:3 NLT) You know all that the Letter to the Galatians is about, and you know the two prominent words – Liberty – "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Galatians 4:1 – A.V.) – and sonship. Not servanthood, nor slavery, but sonship; the liberty of sons. They are the two great words of that Letter, but what are the grave bands there in Galatia? They are the grave bands of tradition, of legalism, and all such things. You know, dear friends, it is very easy to get tied up with these grave clothes! The persistent peril through the ages of Christianity is to crystallize itself into something set, something fixed. You have some light, some revelation, something of the immensity of truth, just a fragment of it, and it is not long before you begin to form that into a set system and make it the limit, saying that this is what people must believe, they must come within this horizon, and they must behave like this. It becomes a system again: 'You must... you must not!', and there is no difference between that and the Old Testament 'Thou shalt... thou shalt not!' Christianity has fallen into that peril, and is continually doing it, circumscribing the great revelation, making Christ smaller than He is, crystallizing truth into something fixed and set: 'This is how...' and the meaning of that is: 'This is the ultimate.' Now you notice that when the Spirit did come, as we have the record in the Book of the Acts, the one thing that these old Jewish disciples experienced was a marvelous emancipation from that bondage of Judaism; and how the Holy Spirit was working all along against any fixed barriers! By T. Austin-Sparks from: “Loose Him, and Let Him Go” 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOrangeCat Posted April 19 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,412 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 1,833 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/24/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19 2 hours ago, Vine Abider said: Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Galatians 4:1 – A.V.) – and sonship. Not servanthood, nor slavery, but sonship; the liberty of sons. I've been reading Romans lately. Romans 8:14-17 stood out to me. "For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory." It's always really nice seeing the Bible show such consistency with its message. And thinking about verses like this and the one you provided it's really incredible. Jesus is rightfully spoken of quite highly in the Bible, and despite our sin nature, past mistakes, and more we're adopted to the point of being considered co-heirs. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted April 19 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19 The first thing that the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil caused was to open the yes of Adam and Eve to their nakedness. They hurried to cover it. This provoked the second thing - an apron of Fig Leaves. If we interpret scripture with scripture, the Fig Tree stands for two things: 1. In Judges 9 it has fruit that is sweet, but unlike the Olive and the Vine, God is not connected to it. Mention of Him associated with the Fig Tree is glaringly missing. 2. Our Lord, in line with the prophets, calls Israel a Vine but the Northern Tribes were deported and the Vine hewn down. What was left was Judah and the small remnant who returned from Babylon are called a Fig Tree by our Lord Jesus. This time, Leaves are in view and fruit is absent. And far from being sweet, it is fruitless and thus cursed by our Lord. Now, the leaves of a Tree are its "Covering" or "Garment" and a Garment in Revelation 19:7-8 are ones WORKS. And Judah's special works were the Law. The only sign given the Church of the closeness of our Lord's Apocalypse is the Fig Tree sprouting Leaves. This in turn is found in Daniel 9 when the Beast "strengthens THE Covenant with Israel". The article is implied, so which Covenant is meant? The Covenant of Law - for it is the only Covenant that has the daily oblation. All this connecting of scriptures is to show one thing - fallen man LOVES LAWS! It is the boast for the Jew. "We keep the Law. So we are JUSTIFIED!" And the Church fared no better. Well has our brother Austin Sparks remarked that we are apt to make new laws, so that we may ask; "does your Church allow chewing gum ... ?". There are ∓613 laws from Moses. There are over 2,400 instructions in the New Testament. But this is not enough! "We want Laws! We want Laws! Pastor ... give us Laws!" "We love the knowledge of Good and Evil!" But the Voice of Jehovah thunders from heaven. "NOT MOSES ....", but My beloved Son ... HEAR HIM! Three great dangers face the Believer; (i) The flesh, (ii) the world system, and (iii) the LAW OF MOSES. Or shall we say, The Law of Moses AND SUPPLEMENTS! And those of you that know your Bible well know that the inspired language of Galatians is very hard. In it are damning statements like "I wish they were cut off!" "You are cursed!" "You have fallen from grace!" ... and so on. The Law is sweet. Righteousness in God's demands is good. Our Lord Jesus was the fulfillment of the Offerings. This God commanded. And their fulfillment was a"sweet savor". But the sweetness came from OBEDIENCE. The Offerings do not give God pleasure (Heb.10:6-8). They are a necessary event FOR SIN. They are there to equal out evil works. What God wants is not a modified version of Romans 7. He desires Romans 8 with Christ, His LIFE, His presence in our human spirits, born again in our spirits (Jn.3:6), being children by rebirth, sons by maturing and above all - to be LED by His Spirit in our spirits (Jn.4:24). It is seldom pointed out but the word for "children" in Romans 8 is a different word in the Greek to that for "sons". "Children" show ORIGIN; GENERATION and show who the FATHER is. The Greek for "sons" addresses THE MATURE WHO INHERIT. Children know WHAT their father does. Sons know WHY their father does what he does. The law is Hagar. Out with the bondwoman! 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Co 3:16–18). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted April 19 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,225 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,512 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted April 19 33 minutes ago, AdHoc said: It is seldom pointed out but the word for "children" in Romans 8 is a different word in the Greek to that for "sons". "Children" show ORIGIN; GENERATION and show who the FATHER is. The Greek for "sons" addresses THE MATURE WHO INHERIT. Children know WHAT their father does. Sons know WHY their father does what he does. The law is Hagar. Out with the bondwoman! 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Co 3:16–18). I appreciate that Ad Hoc. Thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted April 20 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 957 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,632 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,079 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted April 20 Our Efforts will not Build the Church! Hi, 1st Corinthians 13 and 14 seem to have a theme that instructs otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted April 20 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 201 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,458 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 2,317 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Author Share Posted April 20 2 hours ago, Neighbor said: Our Efforts will not Build the Church! Hi, 1st Corinthians 13 and 14 seem to have a theme that instructs otherwise. Fleshly efforts, sourced in ourselves, will not build the church . . . that is Christ's job. We are exhorted to build one another up (mentioned in various places), but He must be our source - and even our building material! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted April 20 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 957 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,632 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,079 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted April 20 6 hours ago, Vine Abider said: Fleshly efforts, sourced in ourselves, will not build the church . . . that is Christ's job. We are exhorted to build one another up (mentioned in various places), but He must be our source - and even our building material! Efforts are not generally fleshly efforts but instead are the work of one's following the call of the Holy Spirit. Those efforts do work to build up local bodies of Christ Jesus. God uses the nost unlikely seeming individuals of the local bodies to quitely, without prior fanfare of any kind, accomplish much that builds up the body of Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted April 20 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20 10 hours ago, Neighbor said: Our Efforts will not Build the Church! Hi, 1st Corinthians 13 and 14 seem to have a theme that instructs otherwise. I'm glad you addressed this. Basically, you and @Vine Abider have addressed tw0 different appreciations of what constitutes "our efforts". Both are correct. 1. In Matthew 16 the Lord said that HE would build His Church. 2. In Matthew 7 our Lord said that EVERYONE is building - some on sand and some on rock 3. In 1st Corinthians 3 Paul was a Master BUILDER and we should follow for EVERY MAN'S WORK will be tested 4. In 1st Corinthians 12:6 in regard to the inspired, "God is all in all" 5. In Ephesians 4 it is Christ Who supplies the individual and the individual supplies the Body Corporate The discussion can be endless, but we can cut it short by pointing out that; 1. Every man will be called to reckoning how he built 2. Every man who builds illegally (without orders) will suffer loss (Matthew 7) 3. Every man who builds wit the flesh (wood hay and stubble) will suffer chastisement 4. Every man who builds without inspiration will see his building fall to the anger of God 5. Every man's efforts must be coupled with an intimate and obedient walk with the Head - Christ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted April 20 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20 On 4/19/2024 at 4:41 PM, Vine Abider said: I read this this morning and was reminded that it is only Christ in and through us Who has any profit, and of our own strength and energy we cannot build one thing concerning His church (that will stand through the testing fire)! How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? (Galatians 3:3 NLT) You know all that the Letter to the Galatians is about, and you know the two prominent words – Liberty – "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Galatians 4:1 – A.V.) – and sonship. Not servanthood, nor slavery, but sonship; the liberty of sons. They are the two great words of that Letter, but what are the grave bands there in Galatia? They are the grave bands of tradition, of legalism, and all such things. You know, dear friends, it is very easy to get tied up with these grave clothes! The persistent peril through the ages of Christianity is to crystallize itself into something set, something fixed. You have some light, some revelation, something of the immensity of truth, just a fragment of it, and it is not long before you begin to form that into a set system and make it the limit, saying that this is what people must believe, they must come within this horizon, and they must behave like this. It becomes a system again: 'You must... you must not!', and there is no difference between that and the Old Testament 'Thou shalt... thou shalt not!' Christianity has fallen into that peril, and is continually doing it, circumscribing the great revelation, making Christ smaller than He is, crystallizing truth into something fixed and set: 'This is how...' and the meaning of that is: 'This is the ultimate.' Now you notice that when the Spirit did come, as we have the record in the Book of the Acts, the one thing that these old Jewish disciples experienced was a marvelous emancipation from that bondage of Judaism; and how the Holy Spirit was working all along against any fixed barriers! By T. Austin-Sparks from: “Loose Him, and Let Him Go” The scriptures used from Galatians can be used in a wide application, so no complaint there. But the building going on in 1st Corinthians is different to the building going on in Galatians. Both were hindered by the flesh, but the Corinthians were overcome by the flesh while the Galatians wanted to use the Law (which addresses the flesh) for personal sanctification. God cannot wink at sin or the flesh. He has ordained each man's personal cross for the flesh, but Galatians hides a deep personal affront to God and His Christ. Corinthians shines light on the effects of the flesh on the building of God's House. God showed His displeasure when the work on the Second Temple stopped, but nobody got killed. Galatians says, in effect, we need Christ as the Spirit for rebirth, but He is not needed in the process of sanctification BECAUSE we can do it better by applying the Law! The Father is generous with those overcome by the flesh - like David. God shows another face when we touch Him and His Son's work - like Uzah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morrow Posted April 21 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,053 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 371 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1955 Share Posted April 21 BUILDING PSALM 127:1 except THE LORD build the house they labor in vain that build it except THE LORD keep the city the watchman waketh in vain ACTS 20:32 and now brethren I commend you to GOD and to the word of HIS grace which is able to --BUILD YOU UP-- and to give you an inheritance --- AMONG ALL THEM WHICH ARE --SANCTIFIED-- JOHN 14:13 and whatsoever you shall --ASK-- IN MY NAME-- that will I do that --THE FATHER MAY BE GLORIFIED IN THE SON-- JOHN 15:5 I AM THE VINE YOU ARE THE BRANCHES HE THAT --ABIDETH IN ME-- AND I IN HIM THE SAME BRINGETH FORTH MUCH FRUIT --- FOR WITHOUT ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING --- ISAIAH 41:22 let them bring them forth and show us what shall happen let them show the former things what they be that we may consider them and know the latter end of them or declare us things for to come --41:23-- show the things that are to come hereafter that we may know that you are gods yea do good or do evil that we may be dismayed and behold it together ISAIAH 41:23 behold you are of nothing and your work of naught -- AN ABOMINATION IS HE THAT CHOOSETH YOU -- LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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