Pentecost & "Speaking in Tongues" - two questions

[IgnatioDeLoyola]

Dear All,

I have two questions on the gift of tongues given to the disciples in pentecost. One of these questions is for any Christian, and one is specifically for pentecostals and others who believe in a modern and more common "gift of tongues".

First Question: The first question is: did the disciples actually speak other languages, or were they "heard" in other languages even though they were speaking their own?

Acts 2:4: "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them."

This seems to suggest that the disciples each spoke in a different language.

However...

Acts 2:5-8: "Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?

So was it that a single disciple could speak and be heard in different languages by people (the Holy Spirit acting as a sort of Google Translate between the sound coming out of their mouths and the ears of the listener) - or was it that the disciples actually spoke other languages through the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Second Question: As I understand it, Pentecostals and some other "charasmatic" Christians believe in a modern version of this gift of tongues - that any believer at any time can ask for the gift and speak in a "spirit language". My question here is: where is the biblical justification for this?

Reading Acts 2, I have never understood it, for several reasons:

1. The disciples were given the gift for a reason: to preach to the many Jews who had gathered for their harvest festival in order to spread the gospel of the coming of the messiah. In other words, it was a gift of evangelism of the Holy Spirit. Why would pentecostal Christians interpret this as God will give you it whenever you like, just for your own personal gratification / a laugh / whatever reason?

2. The disciples were specifically given the gift of speaking / being heard in other languages, ones understandable to humans. This was necessary for the gift's purpose: to preach the gospel of Christ crucified and risen. There is no mention at all of a garbled "spirit language" at Pentecost. Indeed, part of the significance of this event is that it is a reversal of the Tower of Babel, where the languages of people were confused so that they would split and factionalise and be unable to communicate - such a significance would be completed erased were the language impossible for others to understand, or some obscure spirit narrative.

I promise I'm not trying to "get at" any believer. I've just never heard anyone defend this belief or answer these questions, and I'm genuinely interested in why people have these beliefs.

All the best,

Nikolai

Edited June 14, 2024 by IgnatioDeLoyola

[RdJ]

1. They spoke in other languages. This has happened recent too with evangelization. One missionary didn't speak the language and there was no translator so he preached in tongues and they understood what he said.

2. It has 2 purposes. You can speak in another language so the other one understands it as evangelization, but you can also talk with tongues like angels or whatever He gives you to do intercession.

‭Ephesians 6:17-19 NKJV‬
[17] And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; [18] praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— [19] and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 

https://bible.com/bible/114/eph.6.17-19.NKJV

‭I Corinthians 12:4-11 NKJV‬
to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. [11] But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 

https://bible.com/bible/114/1co.12.4-11.NKJV

But a personal prayer tongue is for everyone.

Oh look. He explains it much better:

https://bornofspirit.net/here/tongues-the-spiritual-gift-vs-tongues-the-prayer-language/

 

Tongues as a “Prayer Language”

(Note:  Although the term “prayer language” is not completely accurate, I am using it here because so many people are familiar with it.)

When a Christian receives the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, he (or she) receives the power and ability to speak in tongues (Acts 1:5, Acts 1:8, Acts 2:4) any time he or she wishes (1 Cor 14:14-15).  It is a new way for us to speak and to communicate with God (1 Cor 14:2) that goes beyond our natural intellect (1 Cor 14:14).  For this reason, many people also call this a “prayer language” even though it can be used for things other than just prayer.

The Bible tells us in several places that we should make use of this ability as often as possible (1 Cor 14:14-15, Eph 6:18,  Jude 1:20, etc).   It also tells us of many ways that it benefits the person that is doing it.  We are specifically told that no one will understand this language.  It is meant for communication between you and the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:2 – For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him ; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

This is a faith activity between you and God.  If other don’t people understand what you are saying, it is not an issue because what you are saying is not intended for them.  When you are using your “prayer language,” no interpretation is required or expected.  If someone complains, just say “I wasn’t talking to you.”

Edited June 14, 2024 by RdJ

[IgnatioDeLoyola]

Hey @RdJ,

Thanks for the reply. 

On question 1, how do you know they were speaking in other languages, and not merely heard in other languages? I don't disagree with you BTW - partly because of what it says in 1Cor about interpretation of tongues as a gift, just wondering what your reasoning is.

On question 2, thank you for explaining your view. Therefore you ascribe to the view that the tongues of Acts 2 (languages) were fundamentally different to the tongues of 1Cor14, despite the wording (glōssa) used in the passages being similar?

[RdJ]

10 minutes ago, IgnatioDeLoyola said:

Hey @RdJ,

Thanks for the reply. 

On question 1, how do you know they were speaking in other languages, and not merely heard in other languages? I don't disagree with you BTW - partly because of what it says in 1Cor about interpretation of tongues as a gift, just wondering what your reasoning is.

On question 2, thank you for explaining your view. Therefore you ascribe to the view that the tongues of Acts 2 (languages) were fundamentally different to the tongues of 1Cor14, despite the wording (glōssa) used in the passages being similar?

1. Only heard in other languages while they talked normal? Then it would be something only done to the hearers' ears. That sounds way too complicated. One would get a word in church, a message in tongues, but that is then not in tongues but the normal language they speak, but they hear it like tongues and the ones who don't need interpretation?

2. I think it's a bit similar, but a different gift. Like the guy from the link says I can decide to pray in tongues at any moment, but I can't decide to give a message in tongues or speak in another tongue (tongues, there are different ones) like say Hebrew all of a sudden or Spanish. God decides that and that's not a gift for everyone.

Edited June 14, 2024 by RdJ

[IgnatioDeLoyola]

17 minutes ago, RdJ said:

1. Only heard in other languages while they talked normal? Then it would be something only done to the hearers' ears. That sounds way too complicated. One would get a word in church, a message in tongues, but that is then not in tongues but the normal language they speak, but they hear it like tongues and the ones who don't need interpretation?

Thanks again @RdJ for your prompt and interesting responses.

Indeed, the reason I believe it must have been spoken (rather than heard) in different languages is that there is no need for interpretation of tongues (languages) if it's pre-interpreted for every listener by God as it reaches their ear. 

Having said that, that is because I believe the tongues described in Acts 2 is the same as the tongues described in 1Cor14 - that is, things spoken in a different language not yet acquired by the speaker - and therefore would need interpretation for those who don't speak that language. If God was doing the interpreting for people, why would you need a gift of interpretting for humans?

21 minutes ago, RdJ said:

2. I think it's a bit similar, but a different gift. Like the guy from the link says I can decide to pray in tongues at any moment, but I can't decide to give a message in tongues or speak in another tongue

Understood - they are different gifts - one is a matter of choice of the believer who can "turn it on" any time - the other is a God-given gift for evangelisation. 

How does interpretation of tongues work in that case then? This is also mentioned in 1Cor14 - I'm wondering whether you think this is still a gift, and how this is acquired by believers?

[RdJ]

14 minutes ago, IgnatioDeLoyola said:

Thanks again @RdJ for your prompt and interesting responses.

Indeed, the reason I believe it must have been spoken (rather than heard) in different languages is that there is no need for interpretation of tongues (languages) if it's pre-interpreted for every listener by God as it reaches their ear. 

Having said that, that is because I believe the tongues described in Acts 2 is the same as the tongues described in 1Cor14 - that is, things spoken in a different language not yet acquired by the speaker - and therefore would need interpretation for those who don't speak that language. If God was doing the interpreting for people, why would you need a gift of interpretting for humans?

Understood - they are different gifts - one is a matter of choice of the believer who can "turn it on" any time - the other is a God-given gift for evangelisation. 

How does interpretation of tongues work in that case then? This is also mentioned in 1Cor14 - I'm wondering whether you think this is still a gift, and how this is acquired by believers?

That is a gift, similar to the gift of prophecy. You have to pray for it or strive the Dutch translation says.

‭I Corinthians 14:1 NKJV‬
[1] Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 

https://bible.com/bible/114/1co.14.1.NKJV

 

But to be fair I have not heard that used often or ever. Maybe once in the 80s but I can't remember I did.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

12 hours ago, RdJ said:

1. Only heard in other languages while they talked normal? Then it would be something only done to the hearers' ears. That sounds way too complicated. One would get a word in church, a message in tongues, but that is then not in tongues but the normal language they speak, but they hear it like tongues and the ones who don't need interpretation?

2. I think it's a bit similar, but a different gift. Like the guy from the link says I can decide to pray in tongues at any moment, but I can't decide to give a message in tongues or speak in another tongue (tongues, there are different ones) like say Hebrew all of a sudden or Spanish. God decides that and that's not a gift for everyone.

While at Lowery AFB in Denver, I often spoke to Muslims in their language sharing Jesus with them.   Onlookers beleived I knew their language.