My Objections to the faith

[Itzomi]

I don't know who He is anymore, if the Bible is (in my opinion) no longer "the Word of God."

Very astute. Unlike Bishop Spong who still believes he knows who God is, while not believing the Bible. Still my question was what led you to disbelieve in it as the Word of God?

Yeah, I don't understand how some people can only believe in certain parts of the Bible and not others? You either believe it or you don't, you can't pick and choose. Like people who claim to be Christians but say it's OK to be gay. People like that, IMO, are only in it for the "warm fuzzies." They want just enough to make them feel good about themselves but not enough for it to be an inconvenience. I may not believe in the Bible myself anymore, but if someone else claims to be a Christian, I expect them to believe in it - all of it!

I don't even know where to start as far as no longer believing. Just reading the first page of the Bible brings about a trillion questions, but I guess I can start with: How is it that God created night & day on the First Day and the sun & moon on the Fourth? I know you can't really answer that to my satisfaction - there's really no logical answer (there are "answers," but they're ridiculous ones) - but that's just one of the many head-scratchers I can't get past.

[nebula]

I always get in trouble with this toic.

But here goes anyway.

The Genesis account was written mellenia before science and scientific reasoning as we know it existed.

Ergo, Genesis 1 is not a scientific account of the creation of the Earth.

The Bible is a spiritual book, designed to teach us about God and His realationship to us and our relationship to Him.

So, if you read Gen. 1 from that perspective, you can see that it actually describes the story of redemption through the analogy of Creation.

Consider: The Earth was formless and void and darkness was over the face of the deep and the Spirit of God hovered over the waters.

If God is light, why was there darkness?

Obviously, there is something missing here - specifically where the darkness came from.

As far as the message is concerned, the darkness was just there, and God spoke light into the darkness.

If you study the words used in Hebrew, you can find how words are used to mean different things. For instance, "waters" tends to represent "the peoples" or "the nations." So then the first couple chapters of Genesis could seem to be saying, "Darkness was over the nations/peoples."

The plan of redemption: God said, "Let there be light." And there was light.

Does that help any?

[Itzomi]

Does that help any?

Thank you, Nebula, for your reply. I'm afraid it didn't help... Explanations like that just sound sort of desperate to me, but by saying that I don't mean to be disrespectful. I just don't find it to make any sense, personally. I appreciate your answering the question, though. It's a tough one, so I didn't expect to have my socks knocked off!

The Genesis account was written mellenia before science and scientific reasoning as we know it existed.

Ergo, Genesis 1 is not a scientific account of the creation of the Earth.

Irrelevant. Is the Bible not the "Word of God"? If GOD is talking about the creation of the earth, then I would think God would be accurate? Your argument would only make sense if the Bible was written by someone NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Consider: The Earth was formless and void and darkness was over the face of the deep and the Spirit of God hovered over the waters.

If you study the words used in Hebrew, you can find how words are used to mean different things. For instance, "waters" tends to represent "the peoples" or "the nations." So then the first couple chapters of Genesis could seem to be saying, "Darkness was over the nations/peoples."

Man wasn't created at that point yet...

Thanks again for your reply, I do appreciate your trying to answer this.

[Leonard]

[Yeah, I don't understand how some people can only believe in certain parts of the Bible and not others? You either believe it or you don't, you can't pick and choose. Like people who claim to be Christians but say it's OK to be gay. People like that, IMO, are only in it for the "warm fuzzies." They want just enough to make them feel good about themselves but not enough for it to be an inconvenience. I may not believe in the Bible myself anymore, but if someone else claims to be a Christian, I expect them to believe in it - all of it!

I don't even know where to start as far as no longer believing. Just reading the first page of the Bible brings about a trillion questions, but I guess I can start with: How is it that God created night & day on the First Day and the sun & moon on the Fourth? I know you can't really answer that to my satisfaction - there's really no logical answer (there are "answers," but they're ridiculous ones) - but that's just one of the many head-scratchers I can't get past.

I'm afraid I don't see why there's a question....... So you're looking for an answer to what? Are you relying on your own solipsist understanding of 'day and night' only from a very Western (read 'Greek'), and very 'present time' understanding of 'day and night.' Did you ever think that to the 14th century BC Oriental mind, those words translated as 'day and night' may have carried very different implications? Come now, surely this has not escaped you? But, if you want YOU, yourself to be the sole arbitor of meaning, how can you hope to discuss anything intelligently with others?

[EricH]

This seemed more appropriate in the Apologetics forum rather than the Welcome forum

[Leonard]

This seemed more appropriate in the Apologetics forum rather than the Welcome forum

Good call!

[Giaour]

So are you saying that the sun and the moon are the same things as night and day?

God created a separation in time to differentiate between night and day.

Then He created an object to light the day, called it the sun. Then He created an object to light the night and called it the moon.

Seems like two entirely different creations to me.

[Keith]

If you believe what you like in the gospels and reject what you don't like,

it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.

-- St. Augustine

[nebula]

Is the Bible not the "Word of God"? If GOD is talking about the creation of the earth, then I would think God would be accurate? Your argument would only make sense if the Bible was written by someone NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I understand what you are thinking.

But consider the audience to whom the word was given.

Imagine if He had gone through quantum physics to these people who didn't even know what a bacteria was!

[Itzomi]

I'm afraid I don't see why there's a question....... So you're looking for an answer to what? Are you relying on your own solipsist understanding of 'day and night' only from a very Western (read 'Greek'), and very 'present time' understanding of 'day and night.' Did you ever think that to the 14th century BC Oriental mind, those words translated as 'day and night' may have carried very different implications? Come now, surely this has not escaped you? But, if you want YOU, yourself to be the sole arbitor of meaning, how can you hope to discuss anything intelligently with others?

Excuse me, but I wasn't the one bragging about my intelligence as you did in my original thread. I was asked why I didn't believe in the Bible and gave a sample, which was a sincere question and hardly deserving of such an arrogant response.