My Objections to the faith

[Smalcald]

Hi itzome.

I don't take the entire bible as literal, yet am still a Christian, still a believer.

The bible is not meant to be taken entirely literal, the Jews did not read it as such, and Christ Himself did not mean much of what He said to be read in a simple literal sense, I don't see anyone here getting ready to gouge out our eyes as He told us we should do if our eye causes us to sin, and it obviously does.

That does not mean I don't think it is true, I do, but just that trying to add up years, count generation

[Itzomi]

Why do you find reincarnation something you are starting to believe in?

From reading about NDEs and a bit of New Age stuff, though I do not like the New Age movement generally speaking. And not that I am taking their word for it just because they say so, but just from the different things I've heard/read. I don't know, it's just kind of looking that way, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong!! Like I said before, I'm not sure of anything and not settled in any particular belief. Just trying to figure it all out and ending up even more confused. LOL.

[Fiosh]

Why do you find reincarnation something you are starting to believe in?

From reading about NDEs and a bit of New Age stuff, though I do not like the New Age movement generally speaking. And not that I am taking their word for it just because they say so, but just from the different things I've heard/read. I don't know, it's just kind of looking that way, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong!! Like I said before, I'm not sure of anything and not settled in any particular belief. Just trying to figure it all out and ending up even more confused. LOL.

Can you share something in particular in the New Testament that you find troubling?

[Itzomi]

Can you share something in particular in the New Testament that you find troubling?

Well, there's the whole issue of Jesus saying He'll be returning "soon," and Paul saying "soon," etc. Of course, I can predict everyone's answer: "A day is but a thousand years with God." That doesn't really answer why Jesus said those standing there sll not taste death 'til He comes again.

Just flipping through the Bible right now, I came upon the verse, "Remember that all these things will take place before the people now living have all died." Luke 21:32

[Itzomi]

Argh! I see a thread in the Inner Court I'd sure like to comment on about Mormons. I'm an ex-Mormon. How frustrating that I can't add my two cents. Oh well...

[Smalcald]

I think that is a good question Itzomi about those who would be alive to see those things He predicted in Matthew. There is the whole issue of what a generation meant, what He meant by that. There is also the issue that indeed those alive did see those things happen as He may have been referring to both His resurrection when He did come in His glory and Pentecost. Some have said it happened with the destruction of the temple which most of those guys were alive for.

I don't really find those explanations satisfactory though. But I think there are seeming inconsistencies in the bible, I just don't find them overwhelming or that troubling, in general the stuff rings true for me. For me scripture seems on the whole to hold together like a true thing would. It does not hold together like a contrived thing would though, as if someone later put it all together making sure all of the little pieces fit exactly, a contrived story so to speak. It sounds like something real people actually did write down about what they really saw and heard at different times and places. I think those inconsistencies were evident to the early Church who put the New Testament together in the third century, but the funny thing is they left them in there anyway.

I don't know much about New Age reincarnation, but traditional reincarnation holds that people are reincarnated in a kind of hellish cycle. So if you see a poor person or a person with a horrible disease, well they deserved it, as they were rotten in a previous life. It seems like some sort of extremist Calvinism, but to me it really seems unsatisfactory, a little too convenient of an excuse for the acceptance of those things.

[Itzomi]

I don't really find those explanations satisfactory though. But I think there are seeming inconsistencies in the bible, I just don't find them overwhelming or that troubling, in general the stuff rings true for me. For me scripture seems on the whole to hold together like a true thing would. It does not hold together like a contrived thing would though, as if someone later put it all together making sure all of the little pieces fit exactly, a contrived story so to speak. It sounds like something real people actually did write down about what they really saw and heard at different times and places. I think those inconsistencies were evident to the early Church who put the New Testament together in the third century, but the funny thing is they left them in there anyway.

I like the way you look at it. If the Bible wasn't meant to be "written by God," then it would be a lot easier to let the inconsistencies slide. I wouldn't have a problem, in that case, if two accounts of the same event differed. Everybody sees things differently. Gosh, how much easier that would have made my Christian life if that were the case!

I don't know much about New Age reincarnation, but traditional reincarnation holds that people are reincarnated in a kind of hellish cycle. So if you see a poor person or a person with a horrible disease, well they deserved it, as they were rotten in a previous life. It seems like some sort of extremist Calvinism, but to me it really seems unsatisfactory, a little too convenient of an excuse for the acceptance of those things.

Yeah, I don't really understand it myself. Supposedly, living all these lives is supposed to help you 'learn lessons" and elevate your spirit or something. My problem with that is: If that's the case, why are people getting worse with each passing generation?

[Itzomi]

*sigh* Nobody's around... I am sort of feeling the need to get closer to God right now. Not closer to Christianity or religion or anything, just...God. Wish He would reveal Himself to me somehow.

Edited November 14, 2005 by Itzomi

[Giaour]

I'm here for ya.

God says that where two or more are gathered together in His name, He is in the midst of them.

God is right here with us now.

Talk to him.

He will listen to you if you speak to Him from your heart.

Edited November 14, 2005 by Giaour

[Itzomi]

Oh, hey, let me tell you about a dream I had about a week ago or so. Sort of has to do with God.

I dreamed I was walking down the street, decided to run, then suddenly took off flying. It' a cool, crisp night, the air feels so good, and it's so peaceful. I'm flying over the neighborhood, looking down at everything, and I do flips - I feel so free. Then, I start to get a little too high up, and I sort of get scared. So as I'm flying, I want to grab onto something...which happens to be a church steeple. I grab hold of it, then slide down to safetly. Then I believe this part oif the dream repeats, where I'm wanting to get down, and grab onto a steeple again, and get back down to safety.

Any interpretations?