Holiness equates to being not like "Me".

[charles beanland]

Ever scents I came across the teaching of Holiness by R. C. Sproul a few years ago I have been plagued by God’s Spirit on the topic.

See one of many examples on you-tube here. "The Holiness of God in Preaching - Dr. R. C. Sproul Sermon"

 

     By definition Holiness is Separation from others. We see this example here on earth as our parents and/or grand parents would pull out the “Silver place settings for thanksgiving and Christmas dinner”. The idea of having them for a common spaghetti or pizza dinner would result in a sound thrashing about the head and shoulder and not allowed to come out of hiding until the next year. They are held as special or “Holy” to our parents.

     In our western society, or better yet, in our world in all veering degrees, mankind does not see the truth of this as applied to our Spiritual lives. When we think of “Holy”, we think of super clean and spotless. To a point that is truth, but it is the following that cause our raiment to be spotless. We do not apply it to a moral trait, ethical standard, let alone a state of being of who we are in nature. As an example; We just do not see the angelic host as Holy according to the statement above. Every time we read about the angelic host showing up in our world we are forced to the floor out of fear. So much so they have to tell us NOT TO FEAR and get up. It is their Holiness, their separation from us, the ultimate otherness of not being like us that forces us to hit the deck out of great fear. Understand that though we are and have been created in God’s image does NOT mean we are his image. That is why God tells us we cannot see him face to face and live. We are dead and corrupted in the image we have, while he is the very essence of life itself and not corrupt but pure and other than us to begin with.

 

As a side note to this.

     One minister said that, “We become what we worship.” With the understanding of worship being defined as, (Loving, adoring, attentive, feeding and investing into, and carefully cherishing and holding, etc.). As a comparison here; If we love our sex lives with whomever and whatever, ((See Romans 1:24  Contemporary English Version So God let these people go their own way. They did what they wanted to do, and their filthy thoughts made them do shameful things with their bodies.)) If we love war, violence, death etc. then God gives us over to the result of it. “Those who live by the sword will die by the sword”.

     Another shows us that the word, ‘sin’, can be also translated to Iniquity and Transgression. When you look into the word ‘Iniquity’ in picture form you can see it broken down into three images in Hebrew. First as an eye, then a hook, then many fish. It convenes the idea that if you allow the sin you desire to inter your life it will multiply in your life. Understand that the eye is in other words, set your vision to, set your affection on, to appease your appetite with. That is quite an in-your-face truth when applied correctly.

 

Think of it as a seed in your life.

     At first you may or may not have a vision of a harvest in one years’ time. You play with the idea of it at first, like taking a dandy lion flower and blow it about your yard – in essence, you invest and plant the seed. You care for it; you nourish it and feed and care for it. In one years’, time you harvest the multiplying seed. Thus, your cup runs over whelming in your life.   ((And a cry was heard in the city, a man seen on the roof top shouting – “Were did these weeds come from Aghhh!”))

 

A little look here and there, a short glance at the computer late at night, it’s just a pen or note pad from work, the book from the library years ago, that thing I said to him or her when they were hurting and confused. Hmmm!

NO! I am not saying we should be legalistic in our lives, but to focus our attention and desire to Him and Him alone. To have a vision and desire of his Holiness and not our own.

 

     God calls us to be Holy like he is Holy. We are called NOT to be like the world around us, to separate ourselves from them. The sermon on the Mount is a standard for that idea. If we truly want to be transformed by the renewing of our mind in his word, then I believe we should set our eyes, our vision, cares and affections on HIM. To pray that we see his Holiness. To yearn for his Holiness. To desire above all His Holiness in our lives. Are we tempted? Do we sin when we set our eyes on someone or something else then Jesus? (See Peter when Jesus call everyone in the boat to come to him.)

     Understand this. Jesus came in our flesh, but he is not like us. He comes to search for the one of the Nity nine. We are called to be that one of the Nity nine. God himself said to us that he searches for the one in all of the world whose heart are his. 2 Chronicles 16:9.

Isn’t interesting to see of all of those who followed him (+/- 500) he lost one and that of his, (judas’ own desire/heart that wasn’t his, to do so).

C. P. Beanland

[Truswell]

https://www.bing.com/search?q=hymn+turn+your+eyes+upon+jesus+music&cvid=4e543ed752c74c9a81a6416960900062&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBggFEAAYQDIGCAAQABhAMgYIARBFGDkyBggCEAAYQDIGCAMQABhAMgYIBBAAGEAyBggFEAAYQDIGCAYQABhAMgYIBxAAGEAyBggIEAAYQNIBCTMyMTAxajBqNKgCCLACAQ&FORM=ANAB01&adppc=EDGEXST&PC=NMTS

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, charles beanland said:

God calls us to be Holy like he is Holy. We are called NOT to be like the world around us, to separate ourselves from them. The sermon on the Mount is a standard for that idea. If we truly want to be transformed by the renewing of our mind in his word, then I believe we should set our eyes, our vision, cares and affections on HIM. To pray that we see his Holiness. To yearn for his Holiness. To desire above all His Holiness in our lives. Are we tempted? Do we sin when we set our eyes on someone or something else then Jesus? (See Peter when Jesus call everyone in the boat to come to him.)

Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

[Vine Abider]

11 hours ago, Mr. M said:

Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Not sure your precise point, brother . . . there is still only one Man who is holy, and that is Jesus Christ.  But fortunately, His purpose was to first shed His perfect blood in our place (there is now no condemnation toward us - we are righteous in Him), and then to fill us with His life.  His life in us is holy and pure, and if we let His life operate in us, His life in us will transform us into His holy image.  Apart from His wonderful life in us, we can do exactly zip, zilch, nada that is eternally profitable.

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Apart from His wonderful life in us, we can do exactly zip, zilch, nada that is eternally profitable.

Since we have this wonderful life in us, we cannot do zip zilch nada.

Do you really not get the point of Christ (why you are attributing

any misunderstanding to me I cannot say).

Jesus said, "blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it"

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

His life in us will transform us into His holy image.

We are expected to apply ourselves to the transformation

in the spirit of our mind for godly purposes.

Romans 12:

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 

2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Transformation and holiness without obedience to the indwelling Spirit is a fantasy.

The transformation from glory to glory is not magic, it is dying daily.

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart.

Even though our outward man is perishing,

yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

This is to have eternal life; to pass from death to life, 

to die and yet live by Christ within. Not "die and go to heaven".

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

to fill us with His life.  His life in us is holy and pure, and if we let His life operate in us, His life in us will transform us into His holy image. 

Can you explain the precise point of this?

Can Christ fill us with His life if we do not empty ourselves?

How do we simply "let His Life operate in us"?  

His Life in us causes us to conform to His Holy Image as a part

of His Body. Therefore, "glory to glory" occurs in the Fellowship

of the Saints in Light.

The apostolic doctrines inform us of these things, using such terms

as obedience, diligence, and faithfulness. These terms are consistently

lacking in this statement. 

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Not sure your precise point, brother . . . there is still only one Man who is holy, and that is Jesus Christ.  But fortunately, His purpose was to first shed His perfect blood in our place (there is now no condemnation toward us - we are righteous in Him), and then to fill us with His life.  His life in us is holy and pure, and if we let His life operate in us, His life in us will transform us into His holy image.  Apart from His wonderful life in us, we can do exactly zip, zilch, nada that is eternally profitable.

Would you explain why you do not find more to the discipline

of our walk of faith than, "letting His Life operate".

There must be a point from which we can apply ourselves.

1 Peter 5:

5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders.

Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God,

that He may exalt you in due time, 

7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil

walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 

9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings

are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 

10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus,

after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. 

11 To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

 

The topic being holiness, and God's expectations concerning

those who receive an inheritance by the Sanctification of the Spirit,

let us pursue this as children of obedience in Light.

Hebrews 12:

14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, 

without which no one will see the Lord: 

15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God...

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

Since we have this wonderful life in us, we cannot do zip zilch nada.

Do you really not get the point of Christ (why you are attributing

any misunderstanding to me I cannot say).

Jesus said, "blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it"

We are expected to apply ourselves to the transformation

in the spirit of our mind for godly purposes.

Romans 12:

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 

2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Transformation and holiness without obedience to the indwelling Spirit is a fantasy.

The transformation from glory to glory is not magic, it is dying daily.

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart.

Even though our outward man is perishing,

yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

This is to have eternal life; to pass from death to life, 

to die and yet live by Christ within. Not "die and go to heaven".

Can you explain the precise point of this?

Can Christ fill us with His life if we do not empty ourselves?

How do we simply "let His Life operate in us"?  

His Life in us causes us to conform to His Holy Image as a part

of His Body. Therefore, "glory to glory" occurs in the Fellowship

of the Saints in Light.

The apostolic doctrines inform us of these things, using such terms

as obedience, diligence, and faithfulness. These terms are consistently

lacking in this statement. 

Would you explain why you do not find more to the discipline

of our walk of faith than, "letting His Life operate".

There must be a point from which we can apply ourselves.

1 Peter 5:

5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders.

Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for

“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God,

that He may exalt you in due time, 

7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you.

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil

walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 

9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings

are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 

10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus,

after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. 

11 To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

 

The topic being holiness, and God's expectations concerning

those who receive an inheritance by the Sanctification of the Spirit,

let us pursue this as children of obedience in Light.

Hebrews 12:

14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, 

without which no one will see the Lord: 

15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God...

Great verses!  Let me just simply say that there are always the two aspects of our sanctification - our part and His part.  The verse that comes immediately to mind is "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who operates in you both the willing and the working for His good pleasure." (Phil 2:12)  So yes, we are to work it out, but it is 100% pointless without His life and power in us.

So this is why Jesus says, "Without Me you can do nothing."  But on the other hand, it does require us to "let" Him operate in us. So, so many verses say our role is to let Him operate.  (sort of like plugging a power tool in - without the electricity, nothing happens)

The backdrop for this letting, is that we have been made a new creation in Christ, and this is our actual identity now. So we are exhorted to let this new identity, our true identity, operate in all aspects of our lives.  To let this new man have preeminence we have to be focused on Christ as our source.  For me, focusing on Christ and living by Him means to tend to the things of the Spirit.  These things include calling on His name often, eating His word, listening and obeying His inner anointing/speaking, fellowshipping Christ with one another, praising and thanking Him (by myself & in gatherings), singing and making melody in my heart to Him, etc.

A brother I knew (he went to be with the Lord) used to talk about this two-foldness in scripture a lot.  That is, God has set it up and delegated things to man as a partnership.  If we focus on "It's all Him" too much, we may miss the part He asks of us; but we can also go too far in the other direction and start thinking it's mainly about what we do . . .  (but truly our part is really just plugging into Him as our power source)

Any way, that's my take - was that an effective response?

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

So this is why Jesus says, "Without Me you can do nothing."  But on the other hand, it does require us to "let" Him operate in us. So, so many verses say our role is to let Him operate.  (sort of like plugging a power tool in - without the electricity, nothing happens)

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things

which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: 

we have done that which was our duty to do.

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

These things include calling on His name often, eating His word, listening and obeying His inner anointing/speaking, fellowshipping Christ with one another, praising and thanking Him (by myself & in gatherings), singing and making melody in my heart to Him, etc.

These are all worthy activities to remain Christ centered.

We follow Christ's example by serving others.

Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and 

labor of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, 

in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

[Vine Abider]

31 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things

which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: 

we have done that which was our duty to do.

These are all worthy activities to remain Christ centered.

We follow Christ's example by serving others.

Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and 

labor of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, 

in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Some further thinking - let is much like abide.  If the vine abides, it is staying connected to the life source.

Another brother equated it to be like using a car.  A really great vehicle will sit there.  It's very comfortable, has good wheels and lots of power.  However, it will just remain there until someone does what is needed - it just requires a relatively tiny* effort, that is, turn the key and put it in gear!

* Considering all the horse power the car can generate, the human part is very, very tiny

[Truswell]

19 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Some further thinking - let is much like abide.  If the vine abides, it is staying connected to the life source.

Another brother equated it to be like using a car.  A really great vehicle will sit there.  It's very comfortable, has good wheels and lots of power.  However, it will just remain there until someone does what is needed - it just requires a relatively tiny* effort, that is, turn the key and put it in gear!

* Considering all the horse power the car can generate, the human part is very, very tiny

Jesus is very gentle and tactful in his teaching. Even though he is our Lord, and we are his servants. He provides for our all, even our food. He is indeed our all-in-all. The only thing we can do as His servants is to value, care for, and be grateful for what He has already provided, particularly our salvation. The cook (us for example), wanting a reward for being a servant, does not say to the master, “What are we going to have for doing OUR duty, thank you?” (Mat_19:27) We as the servant are only doing our duty in HIS SERVICE Therefore, let us serve Him in the here and now. Faithfully and in sincere thanks and gratitude for being in such a privileged position as His servant here on earth.

 Yet the Lord, who owes us nothing, will thank and reward us even though we do not deserve it immediately. He will look at the work we have all done, and even though we may have spoiled the goodness of what He has provided, he will say to all those who have faithfully served him the best they can, “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” (Mat_25:21; Mat_25:23) For us, love for him is the elementary duty of all those who follow Christ. To say, “What shall we have therefore?” for doing the work the Lord requires, Mat_19:27, shows not only greedy ingratitude, but also an improper understanding of his future gift of eternal salvation. Our reward will come later.
 

Edited July 24, 2024 by Truswell

[Vine Abider]

On 7/22/2024 at 7:27 PM, charles beanland said:

Holiness equates to being not like "Me".

Just a point of clarification, I did also want to respond regarding the title of this thread.  In one sense it is true that "holiness equates to being not like me."  But there really is only one way that happens, and it has nothing to do with our efforts.  If it did, then we would have something to boast about and our flesh could be justified before God.

The solution presented in the new covenant has to do with having a new life put in us - dying in Christ and then living by our inner-man source in Him.  So just trying to not be like me will never work . . . it must be denying ourselves as our source of life, and letting His life live in and through us.  Without abiding in Him as our source of life, we can do nothing.