Christians CAN believe in evolution... if they understand neither

[RV_Wizard]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

This parallels the restoration of the earth in Gen 1

There was no restoration, because there was no life before the third day of creation, and that was plant life.

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Jesus is God the Son.  That means He is omniscient and knows everything.

Jesus was also human.  Were He not, nobody could injure Him.  

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Why would Jeremiah, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, quote from Gen 1:2 when he was warning Israel of the coming of TOTAL DESTRUCTION of the land??

Why is it that you can't figure out the he was quoting the Scripture when it has been documented to you several times?  

Though the Gap Theory attempts to solve the time problem and the fossil problem, it is beset with problems. First, something has to be read into the text that is not obviously there. There is not one verse in the Bible that explicitly teaches an earlier creation.

Also, the Gap Theory breaks the connection between the first two verses of the Bible where the text has no break. It builds our world on the ruins of a former world with no connection between the two. It leaves the original creation to just one verse.  source

If gap theory had any validity, SOMEONE in the Bible would have explained it.

[FreeGrace]

47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

FreeGrace said:

This parallels the restoration of the earth in Gen 1

There was no restoration, because there was no life before the third day of creation, and that was plant life.

You've been shown all the facts.  And yes, there was no life before the 3rd day because the earth had become an uninhabitable wasteland.  Obviously.

Can you explain why Jeremiah would quote from Gen 1:2 when he was warning of the coming TOTAL DESTRUCTION of the land in Jer 4 if Moses was describing the process of creation?

47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Jesus was also human.  Were He not, nobody could injure Him.

Jesus was both fully human and fully Deity, the God-man.  And to be clear, nobody could injure Him without His permission.

47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  Why is it that you can't figure out the he was quoting the Scripture when it has been documented to you several times?

I never said He wasn't quoting Scripture.  Why did you think I had said that He wasn't?  

47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  Though the Gap Theory attempts to solve the time problem and the fossil problem, it is beset with problems.

There is no theory.  Moses wrote clearly that the earth became an uninhabitalbe wasteland in Gen 1:2, and that is why Jeremiah quoted from that verse when he was writing about the coming total destruction of the land.  There is NO other reason.

47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

First, something has to be read into the text that is not obviously there. There is not one verse in the Bible that explicitly teaches an earlier creation.

v.1 In the beginning, God created (ex nihilo) the heavens and earth.

v.2 But, the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.

47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Also, the Gap Theory breaks the connection between the first two verses of the Bible where the text has no break.

It is amazing to me how much of what I have already shared with you has either been forgotten or flat out ignored.

The Septuagint begins v.2 with the Greek conjunction of contrast, "but".  So yes, there is a break.  A big loud "but", to show a contrast between v.1 and v.2.

47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

It builds our world on the ruins of a former world with no connection between the two. It leaves the original creation to just one verse.  source

Some 'source' you have there.  Here's a quote from it:

"Verse two, on the other hand, assumes that a great catastrophe occurred that caused the earth to become in a chaotic state through the judgment of God. "

Where have I ever said that the "chaotic state" came "through the judgment of God".

I wish you would at least pay better attention to what I post before you keep making these glaring errors.  The Bible doesn't give any details, so we don't know the where, why or how the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.

So please quit making up such junk.  It really hurts your credibility and objectivity.

47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

If gap theory had any validity, SOMEONE in the Bible would have explained it.

What a strange opinion.  The validity is shown quite clearly by the FACT that Jeremiah used the same words Moses used in Gen 1:2 to describe the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of the land that was coming to Israel.

That is validity.  And Isaiah used the same 2 words as well to describe TOTAL DESTRUCTION of the land.

[BeyondET]

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

So, you're admitting that you were being misleading on purpose???!!!

Nay, you mentioned until disconnected from the umbilical cord. I know what you meant, no soul until then is your opinion.

Edited August 7, 2024 by BeyondET

[BeyondET]

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Since the Greek word for "joy" is feminine and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, it's pretty easy to understand.  I stand by my view.  Which the Bible supports.

Show me any verse that describes a fetus as being filled with the Spirit.  I'm pretty sure you'll find one.

You mentioned emotions and 6th month.

I was lead to those verses, that happened for a reason 

 

FreeGrace said

There is no indication from the Bible when specifically that is. Could be as early as 6th month

Edited August 7, 2024 by BeyondET

[RV_Wizard]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 And yes, there was no life before the 3rd day because the earth had become an uninhabitable wasteland.

No.  You're repeating the same diatribe.  You're basing an entire religious belief on two words you don't understand, an inability to accept that Genesis is the most quoted book of the Bible, and that Jeremiah was using language to compare the total destruction of the land to the time of creation before life existed.  You don't seem to understand the idea behind quoting previous Scripture.  You seem to think that quoting a previous reference changes the reference being quoted.  You don't understand the writing.  Do you think that when God spoke the land was flooded because His voice was as many waters?  Do you think Jesus is actually knocking at your front door?  

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I never said He wasn't quoting Scripture.

You're using his quote to change the meaning of Genesis 1.  I'd say that's a pretty good example of not understanding it.

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Moses wrote clearly that the earth became an uninhabitalbe wasteland in Gen 1:2

It's so clear that 19 centuries later people finally discovered it, coincidentally when scientists were proclaiming an ancient earth and they were trying to justify the two.  It's so clear only a handful of modern day translators make excuse for it.  It's so clear that God Himself proclaimed the six day CREATION.  Maybe He should have asked you first?

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

v.1 In the beginning, God created (ex nihilo) the heavens and earth.

v.2 But, the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.

So now you're writing your own Bible?  Are you and Scofield co-writing?

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

It is amazing to me how much of what I have already shared with you has either been forgotten or flat out ignored.

Don't feel particularly slighted.  I don't believe in the Easter Bunny, evolution or infant baptism either.  In fact, I don't believe in ANY religion created since Christ was resurrected.

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Where have I ever said that the "chaotic state" came "through the judgment of God".

So you don't believe in the foundation of your own Gap theory either?

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The validity is shown quite clearly by the FACT that Jeremiah used the same words Moses used in Gen 1:2 to describe the TOTAL DESTRUCTION of the land that was coming to Israel.

Do I have to use the Scriptures again to prove that God rides a Harley?  Maybe you think that God used a tablet to write the Ten Commandments because He couldn't find His Cell phone.  Did Noah use an Arkansas too build the ark?  

Accept the Bible as written.  There is no support for an ancient earth beyond the desire of some for it to be so and and the willingness of others to believe it.  The earth was a floating mass covered in water and surrounded in total darkness until verse 3.  There was no dry land until verse 9.  There was no universe and thus no meteors before verse 14.  No life other than plant life existed before verse 20.

Jesus said we should believe Moses.  He warned us against those who would add or take away from His teaching.  I've seen the lies Satan can put forth.  Ruin/reconstruction isn't even one of his better ones.

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Nay, you mentioned until disconnected from the umbilical cord. I know what you meant, no soul until then is your opinion.

I don't believe the soul is given after being disconnected.  Maybe you should quote what I said, because I don't believe what you said I said.  I'm guessing you just misunderstood what I said.

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

  FreeGrace said:

Since the Greek word for "joy" is feminine and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, it's pretty easy to understand.  I stand by my view.  Which the Bible supports.

Show me any verse that describes a fetus as being filled with the Spirit.  I'm pretty sure you'll find one.

You mentioned emotions and 6th month.

I was lead to those verses, that happened for a reason

Where is the verse about a fetus being filled with the Spirit?  Which is what I asked.

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

FreeGrace said

There is no indication from the Bible when specifically that is. Could be as early as 6th month

I was referring to when the soul is created and placed into the body.  I don't know and nobody else does either.  But there are lots of opinions.

[FreeGrace]

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  FreeGrace said:

 And yes, there was no life before the 3rd day because the earth had become an uninhabitable wasteland.

No.  You're repeating the same diatribe.

I'm repeating the truth, based on what the Bible says, not on what the majority of English translations wrote.  

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  You're basing an entire religious belief on two words you don't understand

What tripe.  It isn't a religious belief.  The age of earth has NO EFFECT on any part of what you call religion, but I call Christianity, which is a RELATIONSHIP with God through His Son, which is unlike ANY religion.  Earth age is simply a fact.  Nothing more.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

an inability to accept that Genesis is the most quoted book of the Bible

How often it's quoted is immaterial.  It is YOU who seems to have the inability to accept the meaning of "tohu wabohu" which occurs 3 times in the OT, with no context in Gen 1:2 but a very clear and unambiguous context in Jer 4:23 and Isa 34:11, which you can't accept.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

and that Jeremiah was using language to compare the total destruction of the land to the time of creation before life existed. 

Delusional, of course.  What your claim really says is that God's "creative skills" look like TOTAL DESTRUCTION when He is creating.  iow, kinda sloppy creating.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

You don't seem to understand the idea behind quoting previous Scripture.

This is an example of projection.  You're charging me what what ails you.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  You seem to think that quoting a previous reference changes the reference being quoted.

Totally missing the point.  Jeremiah quoted from Gen 1:2 precisely because he knew what Moses wrote;  that the earth BECAME an uninhabitable wasteland, which is what he was warning about in Jer 4, which the context clearly supports.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  You don't understand the writing.

More projection.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

 You're using his quote to change the meaning of Genesis 1.  I'd say that's a pretty good example of not understanding it.

No, I have proved what Moses meant BECAUSE Jeremiah quoted Gen 1:2 when describing what was coming to the land.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

It's so clear that 19 centuries later people finally discovered it, coincidentally when scientists were proclaiming an ancient earth and they were trying to justify the two.

Immaterial. Nothing of what I believe comes from 19th century.  It comes from the meaning of "tohu", used 10 times in the OT and 3 times with "wabohu".  And all of this was written FAR BEFORE the 19th century.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  It's so clear only a handful of modern day translators make excuse for it.  It's so clear that God Himself proclaimed the six day CREATION.  Maybe He should have asked you first?

It seems that nothing is clear to you.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

So now you're writing your own Bible?  Are you and Scofield co-writing?

Snarkiness doesn't help your credibility.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

So you don't believe in the foundation of your own Gap theory either?

The foundation for my belief is straight from the Bible which doesn't promote any "theories".  Why you keep brining that word into the discussion only lessens your credibility.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Do I have to use the Scriptures again to prove that God rides a Harley?  Maybe you think that God used a tablet to write the Ten Commandments because He couldn't find His Cell phone.  Did Noah use an Arkansas too build the ark?

I don't answer stupid questions.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  Accept the Bible as written. 

I have.  Why haven't you?

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

There is no support for an ancient earth beyond the desire of some for it to be so and and the willingness of others to believe it.  The earth was a floating mass covered in water and surrounded in total darkness until verse 3.  There was no dry land until verse 9.  There was no universe and thus no meteors before verse 14.  No life other than plant life existed before verse 20.

You don't know what you are talking about.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Jesus said we should believe Moses.

I do and Jeremiah sure did.

20 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  He warned us against those who would add or take away from His teaching.  I've seen the lies Satan can put forth.  Ruin/reconstruction isn't even one of his better ones.

Well, again, you are projecting.  It is you and the majority of English translations that have warped the Word of God.   

[BeyondET]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Where is the verse about a fetus being filled with the Spirit?  Which is what I asked.

The Bible doesn't mention a fetus. The unborn are referred to as a child or baby.

[BeyondET]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I don't believe the soul is given after being disconnected.  Maybe you should quote what I said, because I don't believe what you said I said.  I'm guessing you just misunderstood what I said.

You wouldn't have mentioned umbilical cord if you didn’t.