Theistic Evolution

[The Barbarian]

Most Christians assume that young-earth creationism has always been a core tenet of American fundamentalist Christianity—

14 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

This may be a shock to you, but America is only 248 years old. 

But as you learned, YE creationism is only as old as the 20th century.

Moses didn't believe in the SDA re-interpretation, that was spread to fundamentalists by SDA missionary George McCready Price.

16 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Do you really think you're going to convince ANYONE they the author of Genesis didn't believe it was literally true?

I'm pointing out that your new interpretation is not God's word.   Nor are you God. 

17 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

You keep spewing this lie that people believed Genesis was untrue up until the 20th century

Again, you aren't God and Genesis is not obligated to conform to your new interpretation.

Yes we get that you happen to believe the days of creation were literal ones.   But the text itself says otherwise.    Why not set your pride aside and just accept it God's way?

 

 

[RV_Wizard]

57 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

What about the Apostle's Creed do you find objectionable?

You said "The Nicene Creed defines who is a Christian."  Then you quoted the Apostle's Creed, which is not the same.  The Nicene Creed contains the following:

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

I don't acknowledge the church of Rome as the only church.  Baptism isn't for the forgiveness of sins.  Baptism is symbolic of the death and resurrection of Christ.

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

I'm pointing out that your interpretation of His word is not truth.

And yet, I haven't offered interpretation, but the actual words from the Scriptures.  I have not taken verses out of context.  That's your thing.  I haven't offered anything not found in the Scriptures.  I back my posts up with chapter and verse.  You make accusations and blame creationists for much of the world's problems.  That's just dishonest.    

[RV_Wizard]

5 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

YE creationism is only as old as the 20th century.

That's funny.  I didn't know Moses lived in the 2oth century.

6 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

I'm pointing out that your new interpretation is not God's word. 

New interpretation?  Show men, then God's word.  You obviously have a different Bible than mine.  Show me WITHOUT taking a verse out of context where God's word says man evolved from a common ancestor with a daffodil.  Show me.  I want to see it.  We both know you're making this up.  Prove it.

[The Barbarian]

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Show me WITHOUT taking a verse out of context where God's word says man evolved from a common ancestor with a daffodil.  Show me.  I want to see it.  We both know you're making this up.  Prove it.

Show me WITHOUT taking a verse out of context where God's word says the sun shines because of nuclear fusion.  Show me.  I want to see it.  We both know you're making this up.  Prove it.

Did you really think that dodge was going to work for you.   As I showed you, there are lots of things that are true that are not in God's word.   And like YE creationism, there are lots of things that are false that are not in God's word.

Which is what you're trying to find a way around, now.   Your new interpretation is not God's word. 

11 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You said "The Nicene Creed defines who is a Christian."  Then you quoted the Apostle's Creed, which is not the same. 

The Nicene Creed contains the filioque, which was the cause of the schism between the Eastern and Western Churches.    It has to do with the nature of the Trinity.   So technically, the Apostle's Creed is more general and includes all major branches of Christians.

The Apostle's Creed actually derives from the early Christian baptismal liturgy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles'_Creed

11 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

I don't acknowledge the church of Rome as the only church. 

You still don't get it.   The "catholic" refers to all Christians, not just Roman Catholics.

And

11 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

And yet, I haven't offered interpretation, but the actual words from the Scriptures. 

Each time, you've cited a scripture and then gave us your new interpretation of it.  Do you think no one noticed?

11 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You make accusations and blame creationists for much of the world's problems. 

I'm just noting the racist foundations of YE creationism.   I wouldn't even say racism is the greatest problem in the world today.   And as I said, many creationists have since rejected the racist beginnings of YE creationism.

[RV_Wizard]

26 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Show me WITHOUT taking a verse out of context where God's word says the sun shines because of nuclear fusion. 

STRAW MAN!  I never said the Bible discussed how the sun functions.  You aren't contradicting what the Bible dos not say, you contradict what it DOES say.

28 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

The Apostle's Creed actually derives from the early Christian baptismal liturgy.

I know that.  Perhaps you misspoke when you said the Nicene Creed.

28 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Each time, you've cited a scripture and then gave us your new interpretation of it. 

My interpretation is not new, and it conforms to the written words of Scripture.  Evolution does not.

29 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

I'm just noting the racist foundations of YE creationism.  

Not true.  You're attacking the sins of one of the founders of "creation science" while ignoring the mountain of your own sins.  You do so to try and divert attention from the fact that evolution is heresy.

[Diamond]

On 8/11/2024 at 6:59 AM, Sparks said:

Also, there is a huge issue with death (evolution theory) bringing Adam into existence where as this idea is in conflict with the Bible which says that Adam was the first man that God put on the scene (instantly), and that Adam brought death into the world by later sinning. 

The Bible never conflicts with itself, except in your case, you have a conflict. 

YOU have the conflict. The Bible talks about death from sin. There was death in the world. Cain tells us whoever will find him will kill him. IF we study all the remains of people that lived before Adam we will see just that, they were killed. They were hunted down and killed the way you would kill an animal. Just like Cain said. He was safe in Eden and he did not want to leave. 

In Genesis chapter one God made mankind. In Genesis chapter two God made adam and eve in the garden of eden. We have the genealogy from Eve to Mary, because Jesus was a descendant of Eve. He paid the price for her sin. He died so that she could live. 

Science helps us to have a better understanding of our Bible. Paul calls Adam the first man but Paul was "Jewish" and Adam was the first of the "Jewish" people. Although the muslims are descended from Abraham also. So we are talking about the people that live in the middle east. The land that God gave to Abraham and his descendants. The free son and the slave son. From Sarah and from Hagar. Remember what God promised Hagar? Genesis 21 "18Get up, lift up the boy, and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”…"

[Diamond]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Evolution does not.

Evolution is the best we have to work with and no one has anything better to offer.  My brother gets paid $500 and hour to be an expert witness. Because of the two letters after his name: "MD".  

This reminds me of my wife's niece. She graduated from Kindergarten and now she knows EVERYTHING.  I asked her if she really knew more than the people with 12 years of high school, four years of college and four years of graduate school. That is impressive if she knows more in one year than they know in 20 years of intense study. 

There is a lot of debate and discussion about what goes into the Biology book. I am fairly confident that they are doing the best they can to keep everyone happy. 

[Sparks]

56 minutes ago, Diamond said:

YOU have the conflict. The Bible talks about death from sin. There was death in the world. Cain tells us whoever will find him will kill him. IF we study all the remains of people that lived before Adam we will see just that, they were killed. They were hunted down and killed the way you would kill an animal. Just like Cain said. He was safe in Eden and he did not want to leave. 

In Genesis chapter one God made mankind. In Genesis chapter two God made adam and eve in the garden of eden. We have the genealogy from Eve to Mary, because Jesus was a descendant of Eve. He paid the price for her sin. He died so that she could live. 

Science helps us to have a better understanding of our Bible. Paul calls Adam the first man but Paul was "Jewish" and Adam was the first of the "Jewish" people. Although the muslims are descended from Abraham also. So we are talking about the people that live in the middle east. The land that God gave to Abraham and his descendants. The free son and the slave son. From Sarah and from Hagar. Remember what God promised Hagar? Genesis 21 "18Get up, lift up the boy, and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”…"

Biblically, there was no death before Adam sinned and was forced to leave Eden.  According to evolution theory, many deaths (maybe hundreds of thousands) would have happened just to make Adam. 

There is a conflict.

[Jayne]

1 hour ago, Diamond said:

YOU have the conflict. The Bible talks about death from sin. There was death in the world. Cain tells us whoever will find him will kill him. IF we study all the remains of people that lived before Adam we will see just that, they were killed. They were hunted down and killed the way you would kill an animal. Just like Cain said. He was safe in Eden and he did not want to leave. 

Genesis 1 is about the Creation and Rest.  Not much detail, only explanation that it, indeed happened.  I accept it ALL by faith.

Genesis 2 is a detailed explanation of day 6.

There WERE NO people before Adam.  There were not two Creations of humans.

The Bible so clearly states that there was no death before sin.  And it states that through Adam came sin and death.

If before Adam, there was no sin - why did all of those people die?

[RV_Wizard]

7 hours ago, Diamond said:

Evolution is the best we have to work with and no one has anything better to offer.

That's your opinion.  Personally, I think God's word is the best we have to work with.  If you look at observable speciation you can see that all of the existing species could well have come from the estimated 18,000 species on the ark.  In that context, nothing in biology is contrary to Biblical teaching.   On the ORIGIN of life, however, many biologists make untestable claims that are anything BUT scientific.  The claim of increasing complexity from a single simple life form is absolutely ridiculous.  It exists only because there IS NO scientific answer for the origination of anything.  The origination of matter and the origination of life is beyond the scope of science.

If you learn nothing more about science, learn this.  Science is the study of the physical world around us.  It can neither prove nor disprove the supernatural.  Nothing in biology changes if Genesis is true.  However, if Genesis is false, then the only absolute truth in the universe becomes a lie.

7 hours ago, Diamond said:

I am fairly confident that they are doing the best they can to keep everyone happy. 

Everyone Christians and the Lord.  We have no problems teaching observable biological functions.  We don't even have an issue with present scientific theories as such.  However, when you claim that common descent is a fact you are contradicting the Bible with a claim you absolutely cannot prove.  

Edited August 26, 2024 by RV_Wizard