Theistic Evolution

[RV_Wizard]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

it wasn't until the Civil Rights Act was signed by Johnson that southern racists started voting for them.

You should take care who you call racists.  With many of the people I know, those would be the last words out of your mouth before they punched you in the face.  False accusations are the hallmark of the party of infanticide and weaponization of government.  They do not reflect Christian values.

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Again, it's true than many creationists today have rejected the racist basis of YE creationism. 

Creationists believe in the literal truth of God's word, including Genesis 1.  This is the origin of creationism, including YEC.  Since you claim this to be racist, please show us where in the first two chapters of Genesis you fond racism.  I'm waiting.

[Jayne]

2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You should take care who you call racists.  With many of the people I know, those would be the last words out of your mouth before they punched you in the face.  False accusations are the hallmark of the party of infanticide and weaponization of government.  They do not reflect Christian values.

Creationists believe in the literal truth of God's word, including Genesis 1.  This is the origin of creationism, including YEC.  Since you claim this to be racist, please show us where in the first two chapters of Genesis you fond racism.  I'm waiting.

I've been following this thread and not responding so much as it is apparent those who differ with me will NOT be moved.

I just want to stop in and say that, while I know the accusations will never end, I get so blasted disheartened and discouraged to be accused of vile racism merely because of where I live.

AND I, too, want to see where racism is taught in the Bible in Genesis 1 -2.

[The Barbarian]

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You should take care who you call racists.

Kevin Philips, the Nixon staffer who invented the Southern Strategy, called them "negrophobes", explaining why they turned from the democrats to become republicans.   Is that better?

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

False accusations are the hallmark of the party of infanticide and weaponization of government.

Project 2025 does not specifically endorse infanticide as part of their plans to weaponize government.

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

They do not reflect Christian values.

They reflect Trump's values.   Sexual assault, adultery, fraud, etc.

 

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

I just want to stop in and say that, while I know the accusations will never end, I get so blasted disheartened and discouraged to be accused of vile racism merely because of where I live.

There are racists all over, not merely in the southern states.   It's just that for a long time, they were a majority there.    Jim Crow laws pretty much defined where they were a majority.

1 hour ago, Jayne said:

AND I, too, want to see where racism is taught in the Bible in Genesis 1 -2.

I think YE creationists like Henry Morris thought it was from Genesis 6.    

Often the Hamites, especially the Negroes, have become actual personal servants or even slaves to the others. Possessed of a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters, they have eventually been displaced by the intellectual and philosophical acumen of the Japhethites and the religious zeal of the Semites.

Henry Morris, The Beginning of the World, 1992

In fact, racism is taught nowhere in the Bible.  Racism is a modern revision of God's word by men who want the Bible to endorse their beliefs.

I get your dismay.    I'll walk away from this for a while as you're probably right about the way things are going here.

 

Edited September 2, 2024 by The Barbarian

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Sparks said:

No, I am not one.  I am a Libertarian.  James Madison, the main author of the United States Constitution, and I, would have a lot in common in our love of liberty and freedoms, both economic and personal.

I usually vote libertarian.   You're right about Madison.   Madison was so libertarian that he objected to tax exempt church property.   I have some problems with libertarian support of abortion, and with some extreme anarchocapitalist ideas held by a few libertarians. 

But I'm ideologically and emotionally attracted to the idea of law being restricted to that which is necessary for a free and open society.

 Libertarians have moved a bit on the issue of abortion:

Abortion is likely the greatest wedge issue of our time. However, Americans as a whole are less divided over this question than hardcore left and right politicians would lead you to believe. Pew Research finds that 60% of Americans polled think that abortion should be legal in some or most cases with 26% saying it should be illegal in most cases, and only 13% saying illegal in all cases. 

These numbers change substantially however when broken down by old-party affiliation. 80% of Democrats, according to Pew, support abortion being legal in most or all cases, while 63% of Republicans believe it should be illegal in most or all cases.

The abortion argument has been used to control duopoly voters for more than 40 years. If a Democrat starts to question their party’s fiscal policies or their failure to end the War on Drugs or make any meaningful reform to our criminal justice system, they can be pulled back in line by a reminder that the other side wants to take choice and bodily autonomy away from women. Should a Republican take issue with their party’s infatuation with a megalomaniac, or their rhetoric and policies on immigration, they will swiftly be reminded that a vote for the other team is a vote for “killing babies.” 

One thing is abundantly clear: if you are looking for a political party that has no space for nuance or compassion in the conversation on abortion, there are already two parties for you. Take your pick. 

As ever, Libertarians approach this topic differently than the status quo. As the ruling political tribes have sprinted toward their extremes and taught their members to see all others as their enemies, the Libertarian Party has remained consistent, and yet nuanced in the face of a difficult issue that deserves careful thought and debate — not the political football treatment it gets from Republicans and Democrats. 

Amongst Libertarians, thoughts on abortion are varied. Below are some of the many personal opinions expressed to us just recently by Libertarian Party members on this difficult topic.

https://www.lp.org/libertarians-on-abortion/

What do you think?

 

[Jayne]

5 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

There are racists all over, not merely in the southern states.   It's just that for a long time, they were a majority there.    Jim Crow laws pretty much defined where they were a majority.

I think YE creationists like Henry Morris thought it was from Genesis 6.    

Often the Hamites, especially the Negroes, have become actual personal servants or even slaves to the others. Possessed of a genetic character concerned mainly with mundane matters, they have eventually been displaced by the intellectual and philosophical acumen of the Japhethites and the religious zeal of the Semites.

Henry Morris, The Beginning of the World, 1992

In fact, racism is taught nowhere in the Bible.  Racism is a modern revision of God's word by men who want the Bible to endorse their beliefs.

I get your dismay.    I'll walk away from this for a while as you're probably right about the way things are going here.

 

Just one more thing:  The people who believe[d] that the nations stemming from Ham, Noah's son were Negroes and slaves are/were few and far between.  That false notion didn't come from "the South".  

It came from people like Anne Catherine Emmerich of Germany [died in 1824]  That moronic notion can be found in pockets here that there all over the world.  Very few believe it, but a handful do.

And.....your association with Project 2025, Donald Trump, adultery, and fraud.....

Here is Project 2025 which has NOTHING to do with Trump.  [I am not a fan of his at all].

But can you show me in the Project 2025 document where they promote adultery and fraud?  Or anything such?

The Truth About Project 2025 | Project 2025

[The Barbarian]

38 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Just one more thing:  The people who believe[d] that the nations stemming from Ham, Noah's son were Negroes and slaves are/were few and far between.  That false notion didn't come from "the South".  

It came from people like Anne Catherine Emmerich of Germany [died in 1824]  That moronic notion can be found in pockets here that there all over the world.  Very few believe it, but a handful do.

And.....your association with Project 2025, Donald Trump, adultery, and fraud.....

Here is Project 2025 which has NOTHING to do with Trump.  [I am not a fan of his at all].

But can you show me in the Project 2025 document where they promote adultery and fraud?  Or anything such?

No, it didn't come from the South.   It merely found many adherents there.   But it was by no means confined to the south or even to YE creationists.   

Project 2025 is about weaponization of government.  It proposes the end of the Civil Service Act,which would grant the president a huge amount of power to control the Justice Department and other federal departments.   It would essentially remove the protections of the Civil Service Act, which would allow uncontrolled corruption in federal government.   The act was passed to end the "spoils system" whereby the new president could fire all federal employees and put his contributors into jobs, and in return, the contributors would give a percent of their salaries to the party of the president.   President Garfield was assassinated by a person who was disappointed that Garfield did not give him the job he wanted.

The assassination of James Garfield was not the product of a pathetic, demented megalomaniac; it had its origins in the domestic politics of his time.

By that I mean to say that it was the political culture of the 1860s and 1870s that led to the President’s death in 1881. Specifically, it was “the spoils system” that was as much the cause of Garfield’s assassination as were Guiteau’s actions.

The Federal bureaucracy had been growing since the days of Andrew Jackson in the 1830s. Many government employees working in federal agencies owed their positions to the Congressmen and Senators who had recommended their appointments to the President. These workers were expected to perform political work for their patrons as part of the job. Federal employees were also “assessed” a portion of the salaries, usually about five percent, to fund campaigns.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/the-federal-civil-service-and-the-death-of-president-james-a-garfield.htm

For this reason alone, Project 2025 is a bad idea.

As you indicate, Trump's anti-Christian standards are not part of Project 2025.

Edited September 2, 2024 by The Barbarian

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

I usually vote libertarian.   You're right about Madison.   Madison was so libertarian that he objected to tax exempt church property.   I have some problems with libertarian support of abortion, and with some extreme anarchocapitalist ideas held by a few libertarians. 

But I'm ideologically and emotionally attracted to the idea of law being restricted to that which is necessary for a free and open society.

What do you think?

You have confused the Libertarians with Anarchists.  We Libertarians believe in law while the Anarchists do not.  Libertarians want small government while Anarchists want no government.  Libertarians believe that people should be as free as they can be without infringing on another person's freedoms.

A Libertarian invented the United States of America, because no one in any other party could have. We uniquely believe in both full economic freedom and full personal freedoms.  To some degree, all other parties do not.

Being Libertarian is a political stance and not a world-view.  You would find Objectivism (think Ayn Rand) is a world-view and philosophy, and they are all Libertarian, but not all Libertarians are Objectivists. Objectivists are extreme Capitalists. Objectivists are 100% atheist while Libertarians can be all over the board concerning religion and other issues, but you will find they all typically stand on the idea I mentioned above; be as free as you can without infringing on others. 

[The Barbarian]

32 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Libertarians can be all over the board concerning religion and other issues, but you will find they all typically stand on the idea I mentioned above; be as free as you can without infringing on others. 

There are anarchocapitalists in the libertarian party, even if it seems a conflict.  My question is how you see the Libertarian party's approval of abortion.    Do you think their recent nuancing of that issue is sufficient?

 

[RV_Wizard]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Kevin Philips, the Nixon staffer who invented the Southern Strategy, called them "negrophobes", explaining why they turned from the democrats to become republicans.   Is that better?

No.  The word Negro was not a pejorative at the time.  You may have heard of the United Negro College Fund.  In fact, many southerners WERE worried because they had never owned slaves, their families had never owned slaves, and they feared repercussions against them by small minded people who would call them racists because of where they lived. 

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Project 2025 does not specifically endorse infanticide as part of their plans to weaponize government.

Once more your post is a slander and a falsehood.  Democrats, the party of infanticide, is panicking because "Project 2025" is anti-abortion.  

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

They reflect Trump's values. 

After making that post about Trump, if you voted for Bill Clinton, don't ever post to me again.  Prevarication and hypocrisy are not Christian values.