Theistic Evolution

[Diamond]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Every age is present in the Bonaparte Basin in Australia, and the Williston Basin of North Dakota.  

It is amazing how much we learn from geologist that are getting paid to look for oil. 

[Diamond]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

There's lots of reasons the flood could not have been worldwide. 

How do you explain that areas that are now high mountains were once covered by oceans. For example, the region where the Himalayas are located was once part of the Tethys Sea

[BornAgain490]

1 hour ago, Diamond said:

The concept of male and female evolved over a long period of time. Here’s a brief overview:

Early Evolution: The first sexual reproduction likely occurred between single-celled organisms that were not distinctly male or female. These organisms exchanged genetic material to increase genetic diversity and adaptability1.

Sex-Determining Genes: In mammals, the first sex-determining genes appeared around 180 million years ago. These genes, particularly the Y chromosome, began to differentiate males from females

No. In the beginning (whenever that was) God created male and female.  

[Sparks]

9 hours ago, Diamond said:

It is amazing how someone can spend four years of college and four years of graduate school to study a subject. Then someone comes along who did not even put five min of effort into it and they think they know more than the experts with Phd's.  

Yes, you do seem to do that.  It's astute of you to realize that you have that habit.

[The Barbarian]

9 hours ago, Diamond said:

How do you explain that areas that are now high mountains were once covered by oceans. For example, the region where the Himalayas are located was once part of the Tethys Sea

Great question.    The Himalayas are folded-up continental shelf, produced when India moved north and collided with Asia.   It's still going on, a few centimeters a year.

Those mountains aren't merely covered in marine fossils; they are made of marine fossils.

[The Barbarian]

9 hours ago, Diamond said:

It is amazing how much we learn from geologist that are getting paid to look for oil. 

Well, they have to produce results.

[The Barbarian]

10 hours ago, Sparks said:

No, they lied to you when they say the geologic column is in 'correct order,' only its not except in text books. 

They have drilling cores,showing the fact.    No point in denial.

I know... "They are lying!   All of them are lying!!"

10 hours ago, Sparks said:

What you see is was the wrath of God against the world in the form of a world-wide flood

I know you want to believe that, but in the absence of scriptural support or physical evidence....

... well you know.

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

They have drilling cores,showing the fact.    No point in denial.

I know... "They are lying!   All of them are lying!!"

I know you want to believe that, but in the absence of scriptural support or physical evidence....

... well you know.

It's cute, but a misinterpretation of the evidence. 

When the layers are a product of hydrologic sorting from a world-wide flood which automatically sorts quickly, but you go in with the wrong premise that it took billions of years to create these layers, you can just make up the names of each layer, and put a story behind it.   

This is called an a priori fallacy, when you say, "We know it took billions of years, therefore ..." or, "we know the amber is 100 million years old, therefore the feather inside is from a dinosaur, ..." you are committing this fallacy.  You don't know that the amber is 100 million years old, or that the layers took billions of years to form.

... well you know.

 

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Diamond, what do you say to Psalm 19, which says that God reveals himself in two ways, through his creation (verses 1-6) and through his Word, the Bible (verses 7-14)?

Your theory of using both science and the Bible sounds fine until there is a conflict. For example, the Bible in Genesis 1 and 2 says that Adam was a special creation of God, whereas evolution says that humans are descended from ape-like ancestors.

Here, we need to choose. John Calvin chose the Bible, and I agree with him. He said that the Bible is the lens through which we interpret the universe. That's the point of Psalm 19 and Genesis 1 and 2.

It's also Paul's point in Romans 1:18-23 that humans' basic sin was rejection of their Creator: 

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 
Rom 1:19  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 
Rom 1:20  For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 
Rom 1:21  For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 
Rom 1:22  Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 
Rom 1:23  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things (ESV).  

I'd be interested in your response to my question as a fellow Christian.

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Sparks said:

It's cute, but a misinterpretation of the evidence. 

A YE creationist who is actually a geologist didn't think so.   And he actually knows what he's talking about.

4 hours ago, Sparks said:

When the layers are a product of hydrologic sorting from a world-wide flood which automatically sorts quickly, but you go in with the wrong premise that it took billions of years to create these layers, you can just make up the names of each layer, and put a story behind it.

Since the layers have forests and deserts and animal burrows and even river valleys in them, that excuse won't work.    You just assumed they all formed suddenly and then used that assumption to support your concludsion.

This is called an a priori fallacy, where you assume that it formed suddenly, and so reject any evidence that refutes one's assumption.

A Priori Fallacy
A corrupt argument from logos, starting with a given, pre-set belief, dogma, doctrine, scripture verse, "fact" or conclusion and then searching for any reasonable or reasonable-sounding argument to rationalize, defend or justify it.

Whatever you want to call the layers of given geological periods, they are well-known and verifiable.   Perhaps the people who told you that the geological column existed nowhere simply assumed what they didn't know.